Respect to lewis, he took a blow for the team and probably saved some designers asses to get that data for them to understand the floor flexing. Total respect to lewis on that.
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Everyone makes mistakes (especially ones who have lost so many engineers to another team) but up until now there was computer and test time to to put it right. This year was not only a completely new ethos of the car, but new tyres which no one had much experience with.lh13 wrote: ↑12 Jun 2022, 20:54Also, it is interesting that they spend money, CFD and wind tunnel time to come up with a suspension design that is worse than the one they're already using.chrisc90 wrote:If Lewis was running new rear suspension on his car, I wonder how much money and CFD that cost the team.
Out of interest. Does McLaren run Merc Rear suspension? or just PU and gearbox? (appreciate that might be a slight OT for the team thread)
What are they even doing? And some here keep claiming that Mercedes cannot make mistakes since they won 8 championships in a row.
Wow, thats quite a big outlay to be doing some experimenting. It will be interesting to see what the experimental stuff is like on a more 'race tracky' surface (smoother)
chrisc90 wrote: ↑12 Jun 2022, 21:05Wow, thats quite a big outlay to be doing some experimenting. It will be interesting to see what the experimental stuff is like on a more 'race tracky' surface (smoother)
Thanks for clearing it up regarding the rear suspension. I know some other teams use others. Haas using Ferrari I believe however didnt know if merc had customer teams there too.
I really think the trick lies within the suspension, given the way RB brought a new setup to day 3 in Barcelona testing and was loads better.
Aston Martin use Merc rear suspension. If I'm wrong, well Aston Martin have done an amazing copy of the Merc rear suspension to my eye. Toto might want to have a look at that....and make sure things weren't downloaded
AM are renowned for their 'amazing copies'AR3-GP wrote: ↑13 Jun 2022, 00:31Aston Martin use Merc rear suspension. If I'm wrong, well Aston Martin have done an amazing copy of the Merc rear suspension to my eye. Toto might want to have a look at that....and make sure things weren't downloaded
Could be the exact same suspension as George with different settings.
Why not copy others like Aston did if they are unable to solve the problem? Williams doesn't seem to suffer with a similar concept, may be they should take some cues from that car. The car worked without issues in Barcelona and they should find out why it worked and use that solution.
Thanks for this post. At high speed the car is on bump stops, huh. So there you go, the problems, on the straights at least, all aim right back to aero.214270 wrote: ↑13 Jun 2022, 14:17AMuS article translated:
George Russell described his hussar ride to third place: "We hit the ground on every single corner, on every single lap, and we did that for 90 minutes. It was pretty brutal." Record winner Lewis Hamilton, who finished fourth, was helped out of his Silver Arrow after 51 laps. He was driving a car with a slightly different specification than Russell. A car that bounced up and down even more and roared over the bumps. "The adrenaline got me through. I had to grit my teeth in pain," the seven-time champion reported.
Despite the bounce, Mercedes is always on point. 27 world championship points are a hefty haul. Hard to believe: After eight races, they are only 38 points behind Ferrari. The problems are manifold. The engine is no longer the class leader. The chassis is a work in progress. The window for the W13 is far too small. The car has to be driven hard and low. As a result, it bounced quite a bit on the bumps. That costs speed because the engine speed goes down. The aerodynamics are too sharp.
On one lap, the drivers have a hard time generating even tire temperatures on both axles. Over the distance, that's no problem. Because in race trim the speeds also decrease with full tanks, the bouncing goes down a bit. So the Silver Arrows were again third in the field in Baku.
Although they were constantly bounced around, the Mercedes drivers made no mistakes. "In the process, they say they don't even see the corner before the braking point," says team boss Wolff. "We found out that there is up to 6g acting on the drivers' bodies. It goes on the spine, the hips, and also has an effect on the head."
The competition cites a cure: Just up the ground clearance. Wolff: "We would do that, but it doesn't work. At high speed, the tires are the best dampers. At high speeds, our car is in bump stops. Even if we went higher, the bounce would stay somewhere."
Oh come on, he thinks that he speaks to a kindergarten? If ride height is not enough, stiffen more the socks. A multi champion team with millions express from his boss mouth that they cannot do nothing in straights because the car has no suspension?214270 wrote:AMuS article translated:
George Russell described his hussar ride to third place: "We hit the ground on every single corner, on every single lap, and we did that for 90 minutes. It was pretty brutal." Record winner Lewis Hamilton, who finished fourth, was helped out of his Silver Arrow after 51 laps. He was driving a car with a slightly different specification than Russell. A car that bounced up and down even more and roared over the bumps. "The adrenaline got me through. I had to grit my teeth in pain," the seven-time champion reported.
Despite the bounce, Mercedes is always on point. 27 world championship points are a hefty haul. Hard to believe: After eight races, they are only 38 points behind Ferrari. The problems are manifold. The engine is no longer the class leader. The chassis is a work in progress. The window for the W13 is far too small. The car has to be driven hard and low. As a result, it bounced quite a bit on the bumps. That costs speed because the engine speed goes down. The aerodynamics are too sharp.
On one lap, the drivers have a hard time generating even tire temperatures on both axles. Over the distance, that's no problem. Because in race trim the speeds also decrease with full tanks, the bouncing goes down a bit. So the Silver Arrows were again third in the field in Baku.
Although they were constantly bounced around, the Mercedes drivers made no mistakes. "In the process, they say they don't even see the corner before the braking point," says team boss Wolff. "We found out that there is up to 6g acting on the drivers' bodies. It goes on the spine, the hips, and also has an effect on the head."
The competition cites a cure: Just up the ground clearance. Wolff: "We would do that, but it doesn't work. At high speed, the tires are the best dampers. At high speeds, our car is in bump stops. Even if we went higher, the bounce would stay somewhere."
You only have to look at RBR, they went shopping @merc, seems it is paying off big time.Swed3120 wrote: ↑13 Jun 2022, 15:48Mercedes are the only Team on the Grid that suffers to this extent.
I doubt any team bar Ferrari would vote for a rule change.
McLaren, Red Bull and Aston don’t seem to have much of any bouncing.
Haas, alpine, Williams, alfa don’t have the budget to develop a new system
Alpha tauri is RBs second vote
So apart from Ferrari there is no team that has both the cash and will to develop a new suspension system to combat bouncing.
Everybody keeps saying how amazing Mercedes is , so let’s see them solve it
It's the opposite, i don't think that anyone believes that they don't do it to influence FIA to gain something for free. Its totally understandable but i don't see them get anything.KeiKo403 wrote:I’m sure that the car is no fun to drive when it’s bottoming and porpoising. Does anyone else think that even a small percentage of the complaints from the drivers and Toto are being aimed at the FIA and FOM to try and get some rules changed? Suspension ones maybe?