2022 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

[Ryar]

Mercedes might be fighting Williams, and Ferrari will no longer be able to compete with Redbull, possibly making them a top midfield car.
It really depends on how much performance will be lost. Noone knows because noone talks about it. But ground effect cars are meant to be run low to the ground. If they have to raise it it defeats the purpose of the aero regulations completely. I do not believe that they have come up with the right solution here.

I don't think it's anywhere mentioned in rules that the cars have to be run lower to satisfy the definition of ground effect. It's an aerodynamic principle to generate downforce that replaces the draggy aero surfaces from the cars to yield closer racing. The result so far is inline with that objective and cars are following close through turns without as much downforce as they used to in the previous era. If some teams have a side effect of bouncing as they haven't nailed the car concept right, then it's not the problem of ground effect principle.

First of all bacially all the teams have the problem, even Redbull does have it, it is just less than others.
Secondly if you understand how the basic ground effect works it requires the floor to have extremely low ground clearance. The less clearance the more suction is created and hence the more downforce. I think if they have to run 10mm higher they might lose quite a few points of downforce. But we shall see exactly how much. Again, I don't think it's a sensible decision.

I don't think FIA is asking Mercedes to run their car 10mm higher. FIA is simply trying to lay down rules that can stop vertical oscillations that every team has to follow. Mercedes need to figure out a solution to meet that requirement. Every other team has to meet that requirement to ensure driver safety, including Red Bull. If Mercedes has no engineering solution in this situation, other than rising the ride height, then that is what they need to do to meet the requirement and help their driver well being and safety. If other teams can meet that, then it makes no sense for Mercedes not to. Rules are same for everyone.

[AR3-GP]

There simply has not been enough time to surmise that no engineering solution can be found. The Mercedes has changed very little to the naked eye. Aston Martin and Alfa Romeo have introduced completely different side pod concepts in-season which aligned with resolving their issues. Where is the half new car for Mercedes? How are little teams like Aston Martin and Alfa Romeo showing up with significant updates, yet a big team like Mercedes looks basically the same since Bahrain? How is this possible?

[Hammerfist]

I don't think it's anywhere mentioned in rules that the cars have to be run lower to satisfy the definition of ground effect. It's an aerodynamic principle to generate downforce that replaces the draggy aero surfaces from the cars to yield closer racing. The result so far is inline with that objective and cars are following close through turns without as much downforce as they used to in the previous era. If some teams have a side effect of bouncing as they haven't nailed the car concept right, then it's not the problem of ground effect principle.

First of all bacially all the teams have the problem, even Redbull does have it, it is just less than others.
Secondly if you understand how the basic ground effect works it requires the floor to have extremely low ground clearance. The less clearance the more suction is created and hence the more downforce. I think if they have to run 10mm higher they might lose quite a few points of downforce. But we shall see exactly how much. Again, I don't think it's a sensible decision.

I don't think FIA is asking Mercedes to run their car 10mm higher. FIA is simply trying to lay down rules that can stop vertical oscillations that every team has to follow. Mercedes need to figure out a solution to meet that requirement. Every other team has to meet that requirement to ensure driver safety, including Red Bull. If Mercedes has no engineering solution in this situation, other than rising the ride height, then that is what they need to do to meet the requirement and help their driver well being and safety. If other teams can meet that, then it makes no sense for Mercedes not to. Rules are same for everyone.

From the tweet detailing the directive:
"If a team can't supply a setup deemed to be safe, they have to raise ride by 10mm. Cars will be disqualified. if still above the limits."


Rules are the same for everyone but still they banned engine modes when rules were the same for everyone to stop one team, they banned DAS to stop one team they banned FRIC to stop the same team and now they are making every team run higher to hurt one team. Yeah that's fair.

[Ryar]

First of all bacially all the teams have the problem, even Redbull does have it, it is just less than others.
Secondly if you understand how the basic ground effect works it requires the floor to have extremely low ground clearance. The less clearance the more suction is created and hence the more downforce. I think if they have to run 10mm higher they might lose quite a few points of downforce. But we shall see exactly how much. Again, I don't think it's a sensible decision.

I don't think FIA is asking Mercedes to run their car 10mm higher. FIA is simply trying to lay down rules that can stop vertical oscillations that every team has to follow. Mercedes need to figure out a solution to meet that requirement. Every other team has to meet that requirement to ensure driver safety, including Red Bull. If Mercedes has no engineering solution in this situation, other than rising the ride height, then that is what they need to do to meet the requirement and help their driver well being and safety. If other teams can meet that, then it makes no sense for Mercedes not to. Rules are same for everyone.

From the tweet detailing the directive:
"If a team can't supply a setup deemed to be safe, they have to raise ride by 10mm. Cars will be disqualified. if still above the limits."


Rules are the same for everyone but still they banned engine modes when rules were the same for everyone to stop one team, they banned DAS to stop one team they banned FRIC to stop the same team and now they are making every team run higher to hurt one team. Yeah that's fair.

Highlighted the key statement there, which is what I mentioned in my previous quote.

Engine modes and DAS were banned because they were a violation of parc ferme. FRIC was banned as it was aiding aerodynamic advantage and as the rules say, suspension cannot be used for aerodynamic purposes. Mercedes are not the only ones that have lost out on such directives. Red Bull in their dominant days lost out too on blown diffusers, flexible wings, flexible floor despite passing the load tests. It's normal that FIA wants to remove any trickery/innovation that provides unintended performance advantage. Even this year, if someone is going to be exploiting rules, I am sure FIA would clamp down on it.

The matter here is, one team is suffering from a bad design asking newer solutions to be allowed to cure their problem and/or asking for regulation changes (minimum ride height) that hurts other teams, which is quite absurd. This has no similarities with the other things that you mentioned above. Imagine if Renault and Ferrari would have asked to limit the Mercedes engine performance in 2014 because their engines had problems! That's how it sounds. Rules were changed to provide a free hand opportunity for others to develop their engines, not that Mercedes engine was curtailed.

[chrisc90]

Rules are the same for everyone but still they banned engine modes when rules were the same for everyone to stop one team, they banned DAS to stop one team they banned FRIC to stop the same team and now they are making every team run higher to hurt one team. Yeah that's fair.

Who were the team leading a strong campaign for action?

[continuum16]

On the face of it, yes, this is probably not good for Mercedes in the short term. Medium term I expect to see constant calls for suspension revisions from Merc (and possibly others, just to be clear, although admittedly Merc seem to be the most vocal about suspension) but I would not pin any strong hopes on radical changes for 2023.

Teams wanted action, but very few proposed actual solutions that could be implemented mid-season. Suspension regulation changes will never be approved by 8/10 teams on such short notice. The FIA idea does not stipulate how teams reduce oscillations, leaving some scope for development. Surely this is better than a minimum ride height or similar idea.

The key here is what the FIA defines as an "acceptable level" of oscillation. With input from the teams, I would expect that Red Bull, Ferrari, and Mercedes have very different ideas for "acceptable" metrics. Are they going to try to reduce it by 10%? 50%? 80%? We don't know, and may never see the actual formula (please FIA I dare you to release it), but until this weekend I think people need to wait and see before we go around flipping tables. If we get to Monday and suddenly the pecking order is completely different, fair enough.

[astracrazy]

Now they are making every team run higher to hurt one team. Yeah that's fair.

A)Merc were the ones shouting the loudest for something to be done. So something has been done.

B)No team has to raise the ride height if they satisfy the directive. If a team has poorly designed their car, then they have hurt themselves. Why should other teams suffer.

[SuperCNJ]

There simply has not been enough time to surmise that no engineering solution can be found. The Mercedes has changed very little to the naked eye. Aston Martin and Alfa Romeo have introduced completely different side pod concepts in-season which aligned with resolving their issues. Where is the half new car for Mercedes? How are little teams like Aston Martin and Alfa Romeo showing up with significant updates, yet a big team like Mercedes looks basically the same since Bahrain? How is this possible?

I'm beginning to think that Merc have accepted that they will not fight for either championships this year and so are using their budget and the remaining season as a test bed for 2023. So we may not see changes as significant as AM on this years W13. I guess that way it's like giving themselves a bigger budget for next year. At the end of the day, there's no point refining something that is fundamentally flawed only to be 3rd best again next year. Cut losses early, learn more and jump ahead next year.

I suspect Russell and Hamilton may have already been given different assignments this year in an attempt to try and get them back to the top next year.

[PlatinumZealot]

This lobbying will backfire. The FIA has no interest in helping Mercedes. It has the two car race at the fron that it needs for the championship already and Mercedes is not a friend of the FIA the last five yeara running (Toto was getting to powerful for Todt's liking).

Any final decision on this directive can only hurt Mercdes!


Suspenions is an issue with the bouncing but not the porpoising. The fact that these cars are already on bumpstops on the straight means it's slammed to the ground to make downforce. The other teams have better aero and can run the suspension higher. In other words a less harmful suspension will only make Mercdes go slower.

[Dee]

This lobbying will backfire. The FIA has no interest in helping Mercedes. It has the two car race at the fron that it needs for the championship already and Mercedes is not a friend of the FIA the last five yeara running (Toto was getting to powerful for Todt's liking).

Any final decision on this directive can only hurt Mercdes!


Suspenions is an issue with the bouncing but not the porpoising. The fact that these cars are already on bumpstops on the straight means it's slammed to the ground to make downforce. The other teams have better aero and can run the suspension higher. In other words a less harmful suspension will only make Mercdes go slower.

Active suspension. This is the long term goal of Merc, to get this brought under the guise of safety concerns.

[siskue2005]

This lobbying will backfire. The FIA has no interest in helping Mercedes. It has the two car race at the fron that it needs for the championship already and Mercedes is not a friend of the FIA the last five yeara running (Toto was getting to powerful for Todt's liking).

Any final decision on this directive can only hurt Mercdes!


Suspenions is an issue with the bouncing but not the porpoising. The fact that these cars are already on bumpstops on the straight means it's slammed to the ground to make downforce. The other teams have better aero and can run the suspension higher. In other words a less harmful suspension will only make Mercdes go slower.

Everyone and their grandma knows that Merc's 2022 season is written off already

This lobbying is all about getting the rules changed for 2023 where they can be competitive again

[AR3-GP]

This lobbying will backfire. The FIA has no interest in helping Mercedes. It has the two car race at the fron that it needs for the championship already and Mercedes is not a friend of the FIA the last five yeara running (Toto was getting to powerful for Todt's liking).

Any final decision on this directive can only hurt Mercdes!


Suspenions is an issue with the bouncing but not the porpoising. The fact that these cars are already on bumpstops on the straight means it's slammed to the ground to make downforce. The other teams have better aero and can run the suspension higher. In other words a less harmful suspension will only make Mercdes go slower.

Everyone and their grandma knows that Merc's 2022 season is written off already

This lobbying is all about getting the rules changed for 2023 where they can be competitive again

Technical changes will require a 8/10 teams agreement for 2023. Considering that in 2022, it will be proven that setup solutions alone can significantly reduce the vertical oscillations, it will be shown that regulatory changes are not required.

The only premise for which I believe the FIA may decide to institute technical changes, is simply in a bid to close up the gaps across the field. For that, they may as well adopt a ballast system to help the slower teams. Most fans will turn their nose as such an idea however

[siskue2005]

This lobbying will backfire. The FIA has no interest in helping Mercedes. It has the two car race at the fron that it needs for the championship already and Mercedes is not a friend of the FIA the last five yeara running (Toto was getting to powerful for Todt's liking).

Any final decision on this directive can only hurt Mercdes!


Suspenions is an issue with the bouncing but not the porpoising. The fact that these cars are already on bumpstops on the straight means it's slammed to the ground to make downforce. The other teams have better aero and can run the suspension higher. In other words a less harmful suspension will only make Mercdes go slower.

Everyone and their grandma knows that Merc's 2022 season is written off already

This lobbying is all about getting the rules changed for 2023 where they can be competitive again

Technical changes will require a 8/10 teams agreement for 2023. Considering that in 2022, it will be proven that setup solutions alone can significantly reduce the vertical oscillations, it will be shown that regulatory changes are not required.

The only premise for which I believe the FIA may decide to institute technical changes, is simply in a bid to close up the gaps across the field. For that, they may as well adopt a ballast system to help the slower teams. Most fans will turn their nose as such an idea however

The FIA can change it on safety grounds..no need for majority vote

[chrisc90]

Everyone and their grandma knows that Merc's 2022 season is written off already

This lobbying is all about getting the rules changed for 2023 where they can be competitive again

Technical changes will require a 8/10 teams agreement for 2023. Considering that in 2022, it will be proven that setup solutions alone can significantly reduce the vertical oscillations, it will be shown that regulatory changes are not required.

The only premise for which I believe the FIA may decide to institute technical changes, is simply in a bid to close up the gaps across the field. For that, they may as well adopt a ballast system to help the slower teams. Most fans will turn their nose as such an idea however

The FIA can change it on safety grounds..no need for majority vote

Nothing stopping them keeping the current (as of this weekend) procedure in place though, especially if it works

[siskue2005]

Technical changes will require a 8/10 teams agreement for 2023. Considering that in 2022, it will be proven that setup solutions alone can significantly reduce the vertical oscillations, it will be shown that regulatory changes are not required.

The only premise for which I believe the FIA may decide to institute technical changes, is simply in a bid to close up the gaps across the field. For that, they may as well adopt a ballast system to help the slower teams. Most fans will turn their nose as such an idea however

The FIA can change it on safety grounds..no need for majority vote

Nothing stopping them keeping the current (as of this weekend) procedure in place though, especially if it works

Then why would the FIA ask for a meeting to decide on what needs to be done for the future?
The current TD is temporary as its states in their own press release