2022 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

[Big Tea]

This lobbying will backfire. The FIA has no interest in helping Mercedes. It has the two car race at the fron that it needs for the championship already and Mercedes is not a friend of the FIA the last five yeara running (Toto was getting to powerful for Todt's liking).

Any final decision on this directive can only hurt Mercdes!


Suspenions is an issue with the bouncing but not the porpoising. The fact that these cars are already on bumpstops on the straight means it's slammed to the ground to make downforce. The other teams have better aero and can run the suspension higher. In other words a less harmful suspension will only make Mercdes go slower.

We don't really know how the 'detectors' sill react yet. I just hope it does not show up Ferrari as being beyond the limit and mean they have to take action whiles RBR do not or it will be a two driver championship

[AR3-GP]

Everyone and their grandma knows that Merc's 2022 season is written off already

This lobbying is all about getting the rules changed for 2023 where they can be competitive again

Technical changes will require a 8/10 teams agreement for 2023. Considering that in 2022, it will be proven that setup solutions alone can significantly reduce the vertical oscillations, it will be shown that regulatory changes are not required.

The only premise for which I believe the FIA may decide to institute technical changes, is simply in a bid to close up the gaps across the field. For that, they may as well adopt a ballast system to help the slower teams. Most fans will turn their nose as such an idea however

The FIA can change it on safety grounds..no need for majority vote

Yes, but if you will read further than my first sentence... As said previously, the adjustments teams will be making to the cars to reduce vertical oscillations will effectively make the issue null and void. If teams can satisfy the conditions this year, then what is there to change? The teams will have shown that their own tools quelled porpoising for '22 compliance. Why then would '23 need a regulation change?

[siskue2005]

Technical changes will require a 8/10 teams agreement for 2023. Considering that in 2022, it will be proven that setup solutions alone can significantly reduce the vertical oscillations, it will be shown that regulatory changes are not required.

The only premise for which I believe the FIA may decide to institute technical changes, is simply in a bid to close up the gaps across the field. For that, they may as well adopt a ballast system to help the slower teams. Most fans will turn their nose as such an idea however

The FIA can change it on safety grounds..no need for majority vote

Yes, but if you will read further than my first sentence... As said previously, the adjustments teams will be making to the cars to reduce vertical oscillations will effectively make the issue null and void. If teams can satisfy the conditions this year, then what is there to change? The teams will have shown that their own tools quelled porpoising for '22 compliance. Why then would '23 need a regulation change?

Because the cars evolve and will have more downforce next year and it will be even more difficult to contain it just by raising the ride height, even this year it will difficult to just keep raising the ride height to prevent porposing thats just a crude way of looking at it..... hence a permanent solution is needed for the future for the "pinnacle of motorsports"

[chrisc90]

The FIA can change it on safety grounds..no need for majority vote

Yes, but if you will read further than my first sentence... As said previously, the adjustments teams will be making to the cars to reduce vertical oscillations will effectively make the issue null and void. If teams can satisfy the conditions this year, then what is there to change? The teams will have shown that their own tools quelled porpoising for '22 compliance. Why then would '23 need a regulation change?

Because the cars evolve and will have more downforce next year and it will be even more difficult to contain it just by raising the ride height... hence a permanent solution is needed for the future

Or the cars evolve in a way that increases downforce whilst withing the 'safety limits'. Entirely possible. Look at the red bull. Probably the most detailed car on the grid in terms of aero.

Would be interesting to see what their sensors are reporting in terms of other teams such as mclaren.

[siskue2005]

Yes, but if you will read further than my first sentence... As said previously, the adjustments teams will be making to the cars to reduce vertical oscillations will effectively make the issue null and void. If teams can satisfy the conditions this year, then what is there to change? The teams will have shown that their own tools quelled porpoising for '22 compliance. Why then would '23 need a regulation change?

Because the cars evolve and will have more downforce next year and it will be even more difficult to contain it just by raising the ride height... hence a permanent solution is needed for the future

Or the cars evolve in a way that increases downforce whilst withing the 'safety limits'. Entirely possible. Look at the red bull. Probably the most detailed car on the grid in terms of aero.

Would be interesting to see what their sensors are reporting in terms of other teams such as mclaren.

Redbull have much more going on under the skin which no one knows... their uniqueness is the entire package, can't expect every team to have those unless redbull shows everyone what they r doing...with the current rules every team expect redbull will have porposing and bouncing getting worse and worse whenever they add more downforce...

Unless in the fia team meetings redbull gives out their secret, there is only other solution is to give freedom to the suspension rules... that's the best way to tackle it for 4 years of evolution of these rules... the experts on the Internet are eluding to the fact that this is the change that's going to come... no matter how we discuss it here won't change their decision either way

[chrisc90]

Because the cars evolve and will have more downforce next year and it will be even more difficult to contain it just by raising the ride height... hence a permanent solution is needed for the future

Or the cars evolve in a way that increases downforce whilst withing the 'safety limits'. Entirely possible. Look at the red bull. Probably the most detailed car on the grid in terms of aero.

Would be interesting to see what their sensors are reporting in terms of other teams such as mclaren.

Redbull have much more going on under the skin which no one knows... their uniqueness is the entire package, can't expect every team to have those unless redbull shows everyone what they r doing...with the current rules every team expect redbull will have porposing and bouncing getting worse and worse whenever they add more downforce...

Unless in the fia team meetings redbull gives out their secret, there is only other solution is to give freedom to the suspension rules... that's the best way to tackle it for 4 years of evolution of these rules... the experts on the Internet are eluding to the fact that this is the change that's going to come... no matter how we discuss it here won't change their decision

That sounds a bit silly really. Why should Red Bull share the secret to their success? They have the knowledge, manpower and technical expertise to come up with a design in the rules that works very well. Thats not for Redbull to offer their secret out is it? Thats a bit like a penalty shootout at the world cup final, but the player telling the goalkeeper exactly where they are going to kick the ball to ensure they save it.

Other teams need to work harder. Fact.
As I said before, and others....Why should the rules change because a small number of teams cant design a good concept that is competitive within the regulations, and safety margins that are going to be introduced.

It was Mercedes who campaigned for this change, and they should suck it up. They asked. They got, just not exactly what they were wanting to get.

I bet a dollar that all your Mercedes drivers tomorrow will come up with this being a stupid rule and that stuff like active suspension should be brought in. They will still find a way to bring the TD into a bad light. I bet on it. "this new safety directive is going to make our car much slower".

When this gets asked tomorrow in press conferences/interviews...just bear it in your mind when they are answering...who were the ones complaining about safety, and needing a rule in place. Then laugh at the answers they give.

[siskue2005]

Or the cars evolve in a way that increases downforce whilst withing the 'safety limits'. Entirely possible. Look at the red bull. Probably the most detailed car on the grid in terms of aero.

Would be interesting to see what their sensors are reporting in terms of other teams such as mclaren.

Redbull have much more going on under the skin which no one knows... their uniqueness is the entire package, can't expect every team to have those unless redbull shows everyone what they r doing...with the current rules every team expect redbull will have porposing and bouncing getting worse and worse whenever they add more downforce...

Unless in the fia team meetings redbull gives out their secret, there is only other solution is to give freedom to the suspension rules... that's the best way to tackle it for 4 years of evolution of these rules... the experts on the Internet are eluding to the fact that this is the change that's going to come... no matter how we discuss it here won't change their decision

That sounds a bit silly really. Why should Red Bull share the secret to their success? They have the knowledge, manpower and technical expertise to come up with a design in the rules that works very well. Thats not for Redbull to offer their secret out is it? Thats a bit like a penalty shootout at the world cup final, but the player telling the goalkeeper exactly where they are going to kick the ball to ensure they save it.

Other teams need to work harder. Fact.
As I said before, and others....Why should the rules change because a small number of teams cant design a good concept that is competitive within the regulations, and safety margins that are going to be introduced.

It was Mercedes who campaigned for this change, and they should suck it up. They asked. They got, just not exactly what they were wanting to get.

I bet a dollar that all your Mercedes drivers tomorrow will come up with this being a stupid rule and that stuff like active suspension should be brought in. They will still find a way to bring the TD into a bad light. I bet on it. "this new safety directive is going to make our car much slower".

When this gets asked tomorrow in press conferences/interviews...just bear it in your mind when they are answering...who were the ones complaining about safety, and needing a rule in place. Then laugh at the answers they give.

Now you have changed the discussion from technical changes to fan base ranting.

Why did the fia allow to raise the minimum weight at the start on 2022 after request from redbull and Co? Even when some teams were within weight limit, why could some do it?

In 2020 mid season engine mode was changed after winning from redbull and Co. That was done purely to close up the field... so it's the same situation here.

In 2014 when merc had the best engine they allowed everyone to catch up by opening the engine freeze
I am sure you cheered for all those decision but can't take it when things comes back around.

But I am not interested in discussing those.
The FIA have decided to look for a permanent solution to the issue for 2023, hence things are going to change, which will be suspension and floor changes.... can't say if it will be one or other, but atleast there won't be any excuses

[chrisc90]

Redbull have much more going on under the skin which no one knows... their uniqueness is the entire package, can't expect every team to have those unless redbull shows everyone what they r doing...with the current rules every team expect redbull will have porposing and bouncing getting worse and worse whenever they add more downforce...

Unless in the fia team meetings redbull gives out their secret, there is only other solution is to give freedom to the suspension rules... that's the best way to tackle it for 4 years of evolution of these rules... the experts on the Internet are eluding to the fact that this is the change that's going to come... no matter how we discuss it here won't change their decision

That sounds a bit silly really. Why should Red Bull share the secret to their success? They have the knowledge, manpower and technical expertise to come up with a design in the rules that works very well. Thats not for Redbull to offer their secret out is it? Thats a bit like a penalty shootout at the world cup final, but the player telling the goalkeeper exactly where they are going to kick the ball to ensure they save it.

Other teams need to work harder. Fact.
As I said before, and others....Why should the rules change because a small number of teams cant design a good concept that is competitive within the regulations, and safety margins that are going to be introduced.

It was Mercedes who campaigned for this change, and they should suck it up. They asked. They got, just not exactly what they were wanting to get.

I bet a dollar that all your Mercedes drivers tomorrow will come up with this being a stupid rule and that stuff like active suspension should be brought in. They will still find a way to bring the TD into a bad light. I bet on it. "this new safety directive is going to make our car much slower".

When this gets asked tomorrow in press conferences/interviews...just bear it in your mind when they are answering...who were the ones complaining about safety, and needing a rule in place. Then laugh at the answers they give.

Now you have changed the discussion from technical changes to fan base ranting.

Why did the fia allow to raise the minimum weight at the start on 2022 after request from redbull and Co? Even when some teams were within weight limit, why could some do it?

In 2020 mid season engine mode was changed after winning from redbull and Co. That was done purely to close up the field... so it's the same situation here.

In 2014 when merc had the best engine they allowed everyone to catch up by opening the engine free
I am sure you cheered for all those decision but can't take when things comes back around.

But I am not interested in discussing those.
The FIA have decided to look for a permanent solution to the issue for 2023, hence things are going to change, which will be suspension and floor changes.... can't say if it will be one or other, but atleast there won't be any excuses

Lets just have 18 other red bulls on the grid then. Make its the same as F2 where the cars are identical.


All I can see is if the FIA see the safety margin as working, and falling within the rules, then it wont change. And lets face it...why should it change if some teams can cope and some cant.

[siskue2005]

Lets just have 18 other red bulls on the grid then. Make its the same as F2 where the cars are identical.


All I can see is if the FIA see the safety margin as working, and falling within the rules, then it wont change. And lets face it...why should it change if some teams can cope and some cant.

Going round and round on the same argument is not helpful. It's not ur or my decision... the FIA will take action and there is a strong push for it, as evidenced by rumours....and convincing me or winning an argument is not going to change the fia's mind...maybe try calling the fia or going to their office in paris might be helpful
.....the current solution is temporary and they want a permanent policy in place, the fia have always done this to level the playing field (be it small or big change for 2023).... if u can't digest it its not my fault.. we have to wait and see

[AR3-GP]

Because the cars evolve and will have more downforce next year and it will be even more difficult to contain it just by raising the ride height... hence a permanent solution is needed for the future

Or the cars evolve in a way that increases downforce whilst withing the 'safety limits'. Entirely possible. Look at the red bull. Probably the most detailed car on the grid in terms of aero.

Would be interesting to see what their sensors are reporting in terms of other teams such as mclaren.

Redbull have much more going on under the skin which no one knows... their uniqueness is the entire package, can't expect every team to have those unless redbull shows everyone what they r doing...with the current rules every team expect redbull will have porposing and bouncing getting worse and worse whenever they add more downforce...

Baseless claims.

[Swifty]

FIA's behavior is surreal. They can't hide or pretend their intentions after this one... Regardless, Mercedes will be salivating come 2023 and I'm nothing but lively waiting for the time.

[senja]

FIA's behavior is surreal. They can't hide or pretend their intentions after this one... Regardless, Mercedes will be salivating come 2023 and I'm nothing but lively waiting for the time.

What's wrong? They wanted safety, they will get it...

[Ryar]

FIA's behavior is surreal. They can't hide or pretend their intentions after this one... Regardless, Mercedes will be salivating come 2023 and I'm nothing but lively waiting for the time.

Salivating for what? They would have lost ground by a year while they go back to redesign their car. It's never easy to catch up on so much ground lost, even more difficult in cost cap era. One probable reason they haven't solved porpoising/bouncing in 4 four months since they found it, could also be because they can't throw money at it like before. Plus, they are constantly losing staff and cannot backfill as they have surplus staff to the budget allowed.

With the negative publicity that Mercedes handed down to FIA last year and forced their hand to fire one of their staff, FIA would be more careful in not handing any advantage back to Mercedes. Engines are frozen and they are stuck with a lowest power of the engines on the grid. Anyone dreaming of Mercedes making a dominant come back in the next 3 years until new regulations come out in 2026 are deceiving themselves.

[adrianjordan]

FIA's behavior is surreal. They can't hide or pretend their intentions after this one... Regardless, Mercedes will be salivating come 2023 and I'm nothing but lively waiting for the time.

Salivating for what? They would have lost ground by a year while they go back to redesign their car. It's never easy to catch up on so much ground lost, even more difficult in cost cap era. One probable reason they haven't solved porpoising/bouncing in 4 four months since they found it, could also be because they can't throw money at it like before. Plus, they are constantly losing staff and cannot backfill as they have surplus staff to the budget allowed.

With the negative publicity that Mercedes handed down to FIA last year and forced their hand to fire one of their staff, FIA would be more careful in not handing any advantage back to Mercedes. Engines are frozen and they are stuck with a lowest power of the engines on the grid. Anyone dreaming of Mercedes making a dominant come back in the next 3 years until new regulations come out in 2026 are deceiving themselves.

Just to clarify, you're not a Mercedes fan are you? Lol

[Ryar]

FIA's behavior is surreal. They can't hide or pretend their intentions after this one... Regardless, Mercedes will be salivating come 2023 and I'm nothing but lively waiting for the time.

Salivating for what? They would have lost ground by a year while they go back to redesign their car. It's never easy to catch up on so much ground lost, even more difficult in cost cap era. One probable reason they haven't solved porpoising/bouncing in 4 four months since they found it, could also be because they can't throw money at it like before. Plus, they are constantly losing staff and cannot backfill as they have surplus staff to the budget allowed.

With the negative publicity that Mercedes handed down to FIA last year and forced their hand to fire one of their staff, FIA would be more careful in not handing any advantage back to Mercedes. Engines are frozen and they are stuck with a lowest power of the engines on the grid. Anyone dreaming of Mercedes making a dominant come back in the next 3 years until new regulations come out in 2026 are deceiving themselves.

Just to clarify, you're not a Mercedes fan are you? Lol

I am a huge Mercedes fan! .

Do they give fan ID cards here? I must have missed.