2022 British Grand Prix - Silverstone, July 01 - 03

[sosic2121]

You made a good point here.

They called for SC while they did most of the work under VSC condition.
Worst part is, with VSC Leclerc would probably have won the race!

Can you tell me when Leclerc caught up with Safety car? Did he have a second chance to pit before that?

[Jolle]

You made a good point here.

They called for SC while they did most of the work under VSC condition.
Worst part is, with VSC Leclerc would probably have won the race!

Can you tell me when Leclerc caught up with Safety car? Did he have a second chance to pit before that?

I think Leclec didn’t loose out because of the safety car but because Ferrari decided to prioritise Sainz somehow over the leading car.

[renault rs26]

can anyone elaborate why the stewards didn't investigate / apply penalty for Perez on lewis on last few laps AND max on mick ? i thought barging cars and running them off the track (when alongside), was now outlawed?

Perhaps for the same reason that none of the other moments were punished?

It seems this year its fine to run people off the track when alongside. Where LAST year (e.g norris and perez), this was seen as a 5 second penalty.

This was overtake and Perez took racing line. In Austria Perez pushed Norris wide defending position when he should give him racing line.

[RZS10]

I think Leclec didn’t loose out because of the safety car but because Ferrari decided to prioritise Sainz somehow over the leading car.

They even had the gap to double stack. Just a complete brainfart on their part. Only reason i see why they did not pit him was that they thought Lewis might stay out and wanted to have track position.

Can you tell me when Leclerc caught up with Safety car? Did he have a second chance to pit before that?

LEC was picked up by the SC right at the pit exit and the others caught up just after copse - no chance to pit without position loss.

[Andres125sx]

You made a good point here.

They called for SC while they did most of the work under VSC condition.
Worst part is, with VSC Leclerc would probably have won the race!

Can you tell me when Leclerc caught up with Safety car? Did he have a second chance to pit before that?

I think Leclec didn’t loose out because of the safety car but because Ferrari decided to prioritise Sainz somehow over the leading car.

You're assuming Ferrari did know beforehand what was best strategy, while I think Ferrari strategists are the weakest part of the team, at least comparing to RBR who are their direct rivals, so they simply failed... Again. Not new I'm afraid, not first time Sainz correct them, and he's right

[chrisc90]

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/why- ... &fs=e&s=cl

[wogx]

Max went to go congratulate Mick on his first points scoring finish after the race yesterday

[peewon]

[...] all cars apart from two went past the marshalls who were pushing the car under conditions identical to a VSC [...]

I think they went for the SC because the marshals would have needed to round that corner up with Ocon's car too. After already one big incident in the race, they probably wanted to play it safe too.

Well, if this is the basis of the post, [...] VSC is primarily for a situation where [...] a car can be recovered without exposing the marshalls to any danger. [...] As for the marshalls starting the recovery when the drivers were driving to a delta, it could simply be a case of Marshalls jumping the gun or being deemed safe as it was on a straight whereas they would have to go around a turn later. There really isnt enough information to make definitive statements.

One could additionally check onboards to see when they were pushing the car and who actually passed them but i doubt this was done without any communication and them getting the go ahead, so if they were truly concerned about the safety they probably should/would have waited 2 laps until they were all stacked up, although i can see how one factor for SC vs. VSC might be whether the car was on track or not, then it would just be a formality of course.

edit:
In Jeddah there was a car on track and it was recovered under VSC.
In Miami they called the VSC within 10s for Norris' car which was on three wheels on a fast part of the track, they then probably realized they would not be able to push it and called the full SC 1:37min later.
In Baku Magnussen stopped at the end of a fast section on track and the car was recovered under VSC.

So the positioning of the car on/off track does not seem to be a binary factor afterall.

Even in Monaco with a car split in half they went through the VSC and then to a full SC whereas they instantly went to SC here.

I wasn't implying that Liberty wanted that to happen or that there was anything nefarious going on, i really did not want to speculate as there is no info available as to how they make those decisions - fact is that Liberty were 100% happy with it though.

Ultimately the entire point of that lengthy post is that the recovery happened under VSC conditions anyways - in retrospect there would have been no practical difference between a VSC and SC in this case - ergo they could just as well have called a VSC (internal guidelines allowing).

Did it happen under VSC conditions? The delta time under VSC is not the same as under SC which they have to follow till they catch up to the SC. I cant find any definitive regulation about this but here is an article about a Hamilton incident in 2019

https://www.motorsportweek.com/2019/07/29/23860/.

It shows that cars have to drive much slower for the first 2 laps after SC is called. VSC is reduction of speed by 30%. SC is much slower than that. Leclerc, who didnt pit, did his first full lap under SC, lap 40 in 2:45 compared to fast laps of around 1:31-1:32, which is much slower than the VSC which only reduces the speed by 30-40%.

If the SC was unnecessary in any way, one of the effected teams would have 100% spoken about it, which is a hint that this wasnt even ambiguous because teams complain if there is even slightest doubt.

[RZS10]

I did check if anything contradicted the basic assumption my argument hinges on and i could not find anything, as you write the regs just mention the time set by the ECU and i couldn't find anything beyond that, additionally i did have a glance at the lap times as i don't like talking out my arse.

The article says the following:

[...] which meant he was still required to stick to the Safety Car delta time, whereas those around him weren't.

"[...] your first two laps under the safety car, you have to respect the delta time [...]" - M. Masi

No word about there being different SC delta times for the first two laps and the remaining ones, on the contrary it only says that he had to stick to the SC delta time, whilst the others did not have to at all.

Leclerc did that lap mostly behind the SC as he caught it at the pit exit on lap 40 (was called on lap39), only half the start finish straight and Abbey were without it (look at the screencaps) - so this was effectively a lap behind the SC, not with the SC delta - you can also compare that lap time to the other laps he did behind the SC (2:47, 2:41).

I don't think there's any driver who finished a full lap with the delta times without having caught the SC yet and without doing a stop, one of those who got close to doing that is Stroll as he was the furthest car from the SC when it picked up LEC and also hadn't caught the SC train yet after pitting.

His outlap was a 2:03 (lap41) incl. the stop (~30s total) - which puts it perfectly at 30% or even below from a baseline of 95s accounting for going slower in the pits but then not being bound by the delta for a short bit between the pit lane ending and the SC line.
Various other drivers did times around 2:03 in that period on laps 40 and 41 - so regardless of whether the 2 lap limit is still a thing (i admit that i did not even know it existed) they were doing lap times which were roughly equal to VSC times, as you point out it's supposedly 30%-40% which was probably something that was estimated based on previous races (not an official number).

So yea ... i still believe there is no difference between the VSC and SC delta but i would be very happy to concede i'm wrong should anything clearly show that it is not the case.

[Schuttelberg]

Can anyone explain how Norris just lost 1 position and why Leclerc like him didn't minimise the damage by pitting on the next lap? Is it to do with SC deltas and gaps?

I guess Ferrari were still trying to implement their 10 car lengths game plan, which made no sense to me.
But yeah I was wondering why Leclerc wasn't pitted the following lap as well, actually wouldn't he have been able to remain P1 after the pit stop? I don't really understand why Norris lost a position to Alonso. Aren't they driving at a delta, so pitting one lap later as long as the sc is still out should not matter?

I'd really like to see the GPS tracker to see how that all turned out.

[Schuttelberg]

Anyone else here desperate to see Charles in any other team?

[Just_a_fan]

Anyone else here desperate to see Charles in any other team?

I'd love to see him in Red Bull...

[wogx]

Possible in 2025 at the earliest.

[JPower]

Anyone else here desperate to see Charles in any other team?

Grass isn't always greener...

Even if Charles recreates a Lewis to Mercedes situation, he'll run into similar political issues at the two other top teams.

More political battles, more accusations of favoritism, more chances that the incumbent #1 becomes openly hostile.

To me, people are overreacting. a few good races and people are back to acting like nothing happened.

[chrisc90]

If Charles wants to be a #1 driver in the team he will never stand a chance at Red Bull I think thats Max's key role. But if it ended up being much better scoring then it would probably change.


On another note....Why didnt Ferrari drivers just slow down enough in order to get to the pit in order to double stack? Sainz could have slowed down enough in order to build a gap to get both the cars pitted. Would have required some skilful driving with timings and Lewis behind (who couldnt pass) but I cant see why he couldnt slow down and then accelerate away from lewis in order to maintain his position whilst pitting