2022 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

[JPower]

Sorry, but he is mediocre. Charles is much faster than Carlos. Constantly on almost every occasion. Being faster in Silverstone with a massively damaged front-wing, says everything.

In terms of team-orders - he followed the team orders, but he also pressured team tactics to work in his favor. And thats the problem Ferraris Strategy Departement has. They then try to do something that does not harm any driver, but this is not possible. I really wonder how Ferrari, THE team that used to be the first to put their money on one driver, refuses to do this now.

Whats funny is how things changed in that regard. 20 years ago, having a clear Nr. 1 and making calls in his favor was a scandal(i just say Austria 2002), today its widely accepted and a team even gets critisised massively when they don't do this. Maybe Ferrari is still suffering from the ghosts of the past. But if they want to win the championship they have to realise that they did right back then. And all the criticism back then from other teams was just psychological warfare and hypocrisy. They did the same, just in a much 'dirtier" way(what became clear to anyone who didn't already realise this back then after David Coulthard published his biography). But anyway - Charles is definetely much faster than Sainz and the only car/driver combination that is able to beat Verstappen/Red Bull. If they want to win the Championship they have to commit to Charles, and they have to tell Sainz thats the bottom line. Otherwise the championship will be a Sunday walk for Verstappen and Red Bull.

No, he's not mediocre.

"Mediocre" - of only moderate quality; not very good.


That is not a description of Sainz. Just because Charles is faster does not make that true. From 2019-2021, Sainz was routinely considered by F1 media to be a top 5-6 driver on their end of year lists. If Ferrari was looking to hire a "not very good" driver, they had plenty of time to hire Giovinazzi.

Yes, he followed team orders. Suggesting strategy calls from the driver's seat does not prove that wrong.

You keep going back to 20 years ago, but Ferrari had the same policy through the Alonso and Vettel years as well. I for one am glad it changed. If Leclerc is so much faster than the "mediocre" driver, his pace should place him where he needs to be without needing team orders and any other shenanigans.

[ferkan]

Sorry, but he is mediocre. Charles is much faster than Carlos. Constantly on almost every occasion. Being faster in Silverstone with a massively damaged front-wing, says everything.

In terms of team-orders - he followed the team orders, but he also pressured team tactics to work in his favor. And thats the problem Ferraris Strategy Departement has. They then try to do something that does not harm any driver, but this is not possible. I really wonder how Ferrari, THE team that used to be the first to put their money on one driver, refuses to do this now.

Whats funny is how things changed in that regard. 20 years ago, having a clear Nr. 1 and making calls in his favor was a scandal(i just say Austria 2002), today its widely accepted and a team even gets critisised massively when they don't do this. Maybe Ferrari is still suffering from the ghosts of the past. But if they want to win the championship they have to realise that they did right back then. And all the criticism back then from other teams was just psychological warfare and hypocrisy. They did the same, just in a much 'dirtier" way(what became clear to anyone who didn't already realise this back then after David Coulthard published his biography). But anyway - Charles is definetely much faster than Sainz and the only car/driver combination that is able to beat Verstappen/Red Bull. If they want to win the Championship they have to commit to Charles, and they have to tell Sainz thats the bottom line. Otherwise the championship will be a Sunday walk for Verstappen and Red Bull.

No, he's not mediocre.

"Mediocre" - of only moderate quality; not very good.


That is not a description of Sainz. Just because Charles is faster does not make that true. From 2019-2021, Sainz was routinely considered by F1 media to be a top 5-6 driver on their end of year lists. If Ferrari was looking to hire a "not very good" driver, they had plenty of time to hire Giovinazzi.

Yes, he followed team orders. Suggesting strategy calls from the driver's seat does not prove that wrong.

You keep going back to 20 years ago, but Ferrari had the same policy through the Alonso and Vettel years as well. I for one am glad it changed. If Leclerc is so much faster than the "mediocre" driver, his pace should place him where he needs to be without needing team orders and any other shenanigans.

No, that is definitely description of Sainz's season this year. The fact that Leclerc DNF'd from the lead in 3 out of last 6 races and was demoted 4th after strategic disaster by Ferrari in other 2 races he was leading, does not mean he is getting closer or better. This season, Sainz has been really really average, almost non factor in battle out front.

Considering the car he had this season, and the fact that Ferrari didn't ruin mutliple of races he was in lead position, I would say he hasn't been exactly thrilling. Otherwise, as a talent, he is not mediocre I agree. He must be much better then he shown this season, as this is the worst season (performance wise) he has been in.

[JPower]

No, that is definitely description of Sainz's season this year. The fact that Leclerc DNF'd from the lead in 3 out of last 6 races and was demoted 4th after strategic disaster by Ferrari in other 2 races he was leading, does not mean he is getting closer or better. This season, Sainz has been really really average, almost non factor in battle out front.

Considering the car he had this season, and the fact that Ferrari didn't ruin mutliple of races he was in lead position, I would say he hasn't been exactly thrilling. Otherwise, as a talent, he is not mediocre I agree. He must be much better then he shown this season, as this is the worst season (performance wise) he has been in.

You keep saying "this year". No one but you is using that qualifier. Don't change the verbiage. That's not what he said.

[ferkan]

Sainz is just doing his job.
Leclerc should blame himself for missing out on pole and destroying his front wing by hitting Perez.

But...Leclerc was still ahead, still faster and still had it all ruined by SC strategy call. If he started on pole nothing would have changed. Funny people didnt come with that suggestion after Monaco or all the other races he took pole at...

Had he taken pole, he could've run away with Verstappen and left the others behind.

Had he not been over aggressive against Perez he could've had a perfect car - like Sainz - and benefitted from that all race. Possibly created a substantial gap.

He could've been more active in designing his own strategy, be proactive. Like Sainz, Vettel and others have been.

Leclercs mistakes or shortcomings is what makes the team consider letting Sainz win since he was faultless and put it on pole. If Leclerc wants the benefit of the doubt and the full backing of his team the entire time, he should make less mistakes. He shouldn't act like he is entitled the teams every priority.

Yes, Ferraris SC call was bad for him. And yes Ferrari have messed it up for him serveral races this season.

Basically, Leclerc has been on pole in 6 out of 10 races. 1 of them he started from last place duo to DNF, other 3 times he started 2x on front row (behind RBs) and 1x on 2nd row (behind Sainz, only time in half a season). I don't know what average expectation is for a driver to beat his team mate, but expect him to be ahead EVERYTIME on EVERY session seems a bit too optimistic. It can happen that driver does not ALWAYS start on pole (I know, surprising but hey), in that case, team should not bomb your own race while leading.

[ferkan]

No, that is definitely description of Sainz's season this year. The fact that Leclerc DNF'd from the lead in 3 out of last 6 races and was demoted 4th after strategic disaster by Ferrari in other 2 races he was leading, does not mean he is getting closer or better. This season, Sainz has been really really average, almost non factor in battle out front.

Considering the car he had this season, and the fact that Ferrari didn't ruin mutliple of races he was in lead position, I would say he hasn't been exactly thrilling. Otherwise, as a talent, he is not mediocre I agree. He must be much better then he shown this season, as this is the worst season (performance wise) he has been in.

You keep saying "this year". No one but you is using that qualifier. Don't change the verbage.

2022 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team thread. Basically, we are talking about this year and his performance this year has been mediocre. I don't know what you two are discussing, but my first post about the topic was already about current season (as is name of a topic)

[JPower]

No, that is definitely description of Sainz's season this year. The fact that Leclerc DNF'd from the lead in 3 out of last 6 races and was demoted 4th after strategic disaster by Ferrari in other 2 races he was leading, does not mean he is getting closer or better. This season, Sainz has been really really average, almost non factor in battle out front.

Considering the car he had this season, and the fact that Ferrari didn't ruin mutliple of races he was in lead position, I would say he hasn't been exactly thrilling. Otherwise, as a talent, he is not mediocre I agree. He must be much better then he shown this season, as this is the worst season (performance wise) he has been in.

You keep saying "this year". No one but you is using that qualifier. Don't change the verbage.

2022 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team thread. Basically, we are talking about this year and his performance this year has been mediocre. I don't know what you two are discussing, but my first post about the topic was already about current season (as is name of a topic)

Again, you're reinterpreting the words of the person I was replying to. He said he was a mediocre driver. Period. If you aren't going to address that, then stop replying to me.

[ME4ME]

Basically, Leclerc has been on pole in 6 out of 10 races. 1 of them he started from last place duo to DNF, other 3 times he started 2x on front row (behind RBs) and 1x on 2nd row (behind Sainz, only time in half a season). I don't know what average expectation is for a driver to beat his team mate, but expect him to be ahead EVERYTIME on EVERY session seems a bit too optimistic. It can happen that driver does not ALWAYS start on pole (I know, surprising but hey), in that case, team should not bomb your own race while leading.

Absolutely I agree with you. Ferrari has made some questionable choices, as they are known to make.
My point is basically that Leclerc needs to start working around that. Making his own luck.

[ferkan]

Basically, Leclerc has been on pole in 6 out of 10 races. 1 of them he started from last place duo to DNF, other 3 times he started 2x on front row (behind RBs) and 1x on 2nd row (behind Sainz, only time in half a season). I don't know what average expectation is for a driver to beat his team mate, but expect him to be ahead EVERYTIME on EVERY session seems a bit too optimistic. It can happen that driver does not ALWAYS start on pole (I know, surprising but hey), in that case, team should not bomb your own race while leading.

Absolutely I agree with you. Ferrari has made some questionable choices, as they are known to make.
My point is basically that Leclerc needs to start working around that. Making his own luck.

When you are in the lead its very hard to ask you to create your own luck. What can he do when he slows down to a halt and asks again if pit window is open and gets "No, no, negative. Pit window is closed" get in and get espresso while tires are ready? How can he know when to pit in Monaco with these conditions when he cannot even see first car behind him because he is ahead? Pitwall made massive, massive mistakes in both races. Its 100% on them.

[dialtone]

The next race is austria whereRB has a clear advantage due to their turbo which works so well at higher altitute, merc will suffer as their turbo is weakest among all is what i thinks, so its a straight head on fight with RB tis time. I hope we somehow win this one...

4 out of 10 engines in Q3 are Ferrari. Not bad for a small turbo engine that struggles at altitude huh?

[JPower]

The next race is austria whereRB has a clear advantage due to their turbo which works so well at higher altitute, merc will suffer as their turbo is weakest among all is what i thinks, so its a straight head on fight with RB tis time. I hope we somehow win this one...

4 out of 10 engines in Q3 are Ferrari. Not bad for a small turbo engine that struggles at altitude huh?

Those Mercs really look like they're "suffering" too.

[JPower]

Good qualifying session. Very competitive as usual.

I'm hoping the race pace is comparable.

[Andi76]

One, he's not mediocre.

Two, being a team player doesn't mean he should be subservient to Leclerc. That's not his job. He is still allowed to run his race. In neither position was he told the strategy decision made would "harm" Leclerc's race.

In times of direct team orders, he moved aside as he was told.

Sorry, but he is mediocre. Charles is much faster than Carlos. Constantly on almost every occasion. Being faster in Silverstone with a massively damaged front-wing, says everything.

In terms of team-orders - he followed the team orders, but he also pressured team tactics to work in his favor. And thats the problem Ferraris Strategy Departement has. They then try to do something that does not harm any driver, but this is not possible. I really wonder how Ferrari, THE team that used to be the first to put their money on one driver, refuses to do this now.

Whats funny is how things changed in that regard. 20 years ago, having a clear Nr. 1 and making calls in his favor was a scandal(i just say Austria 2002), today its widely accepted and a team even gets critisised massively when they don't do this. Maybe Ferrari is still suffering from the ghosts of the past. But if they want to win the championship they have to realise that they did right back then. And all the criticism back then from other teams was just psychological warfare and hypocrisy. They did the same, just in a much 'dirtier" way(what became clear to anyone who didn't already realise this back then after David Coulthard published his biography). But anyway - Charles is definetely much faster than Sainz and the only car/driver combination that is able to beat Verstappen/Red Bull. If they want to win the Championship they have to commit to Charles, and they have to tell Sainz thats the bottom line. Otherwise the championship will be a Sunday walk for Verstappen and Red Bull.

OMG...

So Carlos Sainz is mediocre, Ferrari knows nothing, they should hire you to provide them advise. How much talent wasted!

Armchair experts...



Funnily enough, Sainz did disobey TOs twice from the many he received in Ferrari in one and a half seasons. And on those two ocasions Ferrari got benefitted as both calls were absurd. IE, Sainz nailed it when deciding to comply, or not, much more than Ferrari strategy department

But he´s mediocre, he should be fired... Amazing how people can overreact when things did not favour their favourite

The funny thing is that its not only the armchair experts saying that, but almost every real expert and they all said what Ferrari did strategically was crazy(not to give the pitstop to Leclerc).

But its indeed amazing how people can overreact when others do not agree with them about their favorite. You are the best example as Sainz is obviously your favorite.

The problem with what you say is that Charles is not my favorite at all. But at the end of the day is about facts. Leclerc is obviously the better driver. He was faster with a damaged car. And that pretty much says everything. I could continue with him beaten in almost every qualifying this season or that a phenomenal driver does not need 150 tries to win his first race. But there is no need to, as its a very obvious thing. You say by yourself that he disobeyed team orders twice. And its does not matter if Ferrari got benefitted twice. Its the team that makes the calls and a driver who does not follow them is definetely not a teamplayer and will always disobey them. But on the other hand - a driver who always follows team orders that give a disadvantage to him, is not a driver who will have ultimate sucess in my opinion. He will become the next Barrichello or Bottas. So - i agree with Carlos not listening to Ferraris teamorders. What does not change the fact that Leclerc has much more talent and being the faster driver, and Sainz being mediocre. And that Ferrari cannot win the championship against Verstappen and Red Bull without putting all their eggs in the "Leclerc-basket".

[Schippke]

Solid qualifying session for Ferrari. Max no doubt on form and saved the best for last, but surprised the gap wasn’t bigger. Typically, Red Bull (well, Max) has the better race pace so will be interesting to see how Ferrari compare.

I’m curious if they’ll run the Soft Tyre in an attempt to get a better start off the line and track position… or stick with the Medium for better overall consistency and push towards the end.

[dialtone]

Solid qualifying session for Ferrari. Max no doubt on form and saved the best for last, but surprised the gap wasn’t bigger. Typically, Red Bull (well, Max) has the better race pace so will be interesting to see how Ferrari compare.

I’m curious if they’ll run the Soft Tyre in an attempt to get a better start off the line and track position… or stick with the Medium for better overall consistency and push towards the end.

sprint race is 24 laps, soft tyre last year lasted 17 laps for Vettel, the other 3 with C5 did 12, 13 and 14 laps. I find it really hard anyone will run anything but mediums in the sprint race.

[organic]

Solid qualifying session for Ferrari. Max no doubt on form and saved the best for last, but surprised the gap wasn’t bigger. Typically, Red Bull (well, Max) has the better race pace so will be interesting to see how Ferrari compare.

I’m curious if they’ll run the Soft Tyre in an attempt to get a better start off the line and track position… or stick with the Medium for better overall consistency and push towards the end.

sprint race is 24 laps, soft tyre last year lasted 17 laps for Vettel, the other 3 with C5 did 12, 13 and 14 laps. I find it really hard anyone will run anything but mediums in the sprint race.

https://f1chronicle.com/wp-content/uplo ... 8x1152.jpg

That's based on full fuel loads right? Plus the C5 this year isn't identical compound to C5 last year, and the track temp might be a fair bit less - I remember it was pretty sunny here for the 2nd Austrian GP last year

Lewis has a new set of softs and I reckon he'll throw them on for the sprint as the W13 looks after the tyres well

But yeah I reckon the top 3 start on mediums