2022 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

[JordanMugen]

disagree with the last line,

Oh sure. I mean from the point of view of Ferrari that Ferrari is more important than the star driver.

[JordanMugen]

dude that was a fluke, dont make an exception a general rule.

Sure! The problem could be that Sainz is young and ambitious, which are not suitable qualities for a number two driver.

With Massa and Raikkonen, even though they were young drivers at the time, I guess Massa is a nice guy and Raikkonen doesn't care about politics, so they rarely had "games" to take team leadership. I guess it was more the managerial people steering car development and team priority towards Massa rather than Massa himself, and Raikkonen not being political to steer these things back in his favour.

[Shal_Leg16]

disagree with the last line,

Oh sure. I mean from the point of view of Ferrari that Ferrari is more important than the star driver.

got that, but even then i don't think thay are correct to think that. Yes its a global brand and all but last title they won is 2008 . 14 yers ago.
To have that brand value also they need a " star driver " they need to help him win it.
By being so vulnerable to strategic calls and getting over ruled by Sainz they are only making a fool of themselves.

[JordanMugen]

With guys like sainz they will never never win a title.

I can't agree there since Massa nearly won a title, Webber nearly won a title, Villeuneve (Jnr) won one, Hill (Jnr) won one, Button won one, Rosberg won one (heck Raikkonen won one too, though it's controversial to call near prime Raikkonen a not quite tier 1 driver).

Tier 1B drivers absolutely can win titles with a little luck.

I don't think Sainz is nearly as terrible as his crash prone early 2022 season showed. In the past Sainz showed he is not far off Verstappen, Norris or Leclerc, and can and did beat both Norris and Leclerc on points with luck (even if he is not as fast as Norris or Leclerc).

Edit - Actually the points gap between Verstappen and Sainz is larger then I remember! So maybe Sainz didn't fare that well and RB made the right decision to overlook Sainz? But it's undeniable that Sainz did indeed beat both Norris and Leclerc, both considered tier 1 drivers, on points, somehow showing the paddock that maybe Red Bull were wrong.

Ferrari would have had their own reasons to select Sainz over Ricciardo or Alonso for 2021. Maybe at the time the latter two were rated higher and so Ferrari thought the "slower" Sainz would be a more suitable number two (that was certainly the media sentiment^) but if so Ferrari should have told Sainz that deferring to Leclerc would be his role! Yet (with luck) the points did not bear that out in 2021.

^ Norris being of course retrospectively rated higher based on outperforming Ricciardo, which reflects better on Sainz too.

[tpe]

What I think I saw today:

1. Sainz can pass Leclerc but cannot hold his position (we saw that a few times already in the past)
2. Leclerc will not accept a pass from Sainz
3. Sainz became bolder after his win.
4. He will NOT help Leclerc in the future, no matter what he says
5. Ferrari's mess on the British GP is bigger than we thought
6. After the race Leclerc (between the lines) blamed Sainz for the loss of win, while Sainz said that they had no pace.
7. Sainz will probably win a couple of points on the political side of the things, but I am not 100% it will be appreciated by the fans/team
8. Leclerc is already not happy with the team. After the sprint race it sounded like he was asking Binotto for help. That's not good.
9. Looks like the right side of the box is not talking to the left side of the box. That's reminds me McLaren 2007!
10. I also think that the team needs to have a round-table honest discussion with the drivers, the sporting director and the strategy director.

I hope we won't re-live a Pironi/Villeneuve drama

[JordanMugen]

6. After the race Leclerc (between the lines) blamed Sainz for the loss of win, while Sainz said that they had no pace.
7. Sainz will probably win a couple of points on the political side of the things, but I am not 100% it will be appreciated by the fans/team
8. Leclerc is already not happy with the team. After the sprint race it sounded like he was asking Binotto for help. That's not good.
9. Looks like the right side of the box is not talking to the left side of the box. That's reminds me McLaren 2007!

Or Toro Rosso 2015? However Sainz and Norris got on well, so I don't think it is fair to say that Sainz = political troubles as a general rule.

[JPower]

“Free to fight” means “free to fight”.

Been that way since the beginning of 2021.

If Ferrari wanted a strictly #2 driver, they would’ve picked a slower driver or outright established expectations of a hierarchy at contract signing.

They have done neither and hopefully will not going forward.

[dialtone]

What I think I saw today:

1. Sainz can pass Leclerc but cannot hold his position (we saw that a few times already in the past)
2. Leclerc will not accept a pass from Sainz
3. Sainz became bolder after his win.
4. He will NOT help Leclerc in the future, no matter what he says
5. Ferrari's mess on the British GP is bigger than we thought
6. After the race Leclerc (between the lines) blamed Sainz for the loss of win, while Sainz said that they had no pace.
7. Sainz will probably win a couple of points on the political side of the things, but I am not 100% it will be appreciated by the fans/team
8. Leclerc is already not happy with the team. After the sprint race it sounded like he was asking Binotto for help. That's not good.
9. Looks like the right side of the box is not talking to the left side of the box. That's reminds me McLaren 2007!
10. I also think that the team needs to have a round-table honest discussion with the drivers, the sporting director and the strategy director.

I hope we won't re-live a Pironi/Villeneuve drama

People like you are why we can't have nice things in Ferrari. Your commentary adds so much bs where there are simpler and better explanations, that don't involve any scheming...

[JPower]

People like you are why we can't have nice things in Ferrari. Your commentary adds so much bs where there are simpler and better explanations, that don't involve any scheming...

What is a Ferrari thread without fanfic/telenovela-level speculation and drama? \

Like I said earlier, Hollywood has nothing on some of these guys.

[ferkan]

6. After the race Leclerc (between the lines) blamed Sainz for the loss of win, while Sainz said that they had no pace.
7. Sainz will probably win a couple of points on the political side of the things, but I am not 100% it will be appreciated by the fans/team
8. Leclerc is already not happy with the team. After the sprint race it sounded like he was asking Binotto for help. That's not good.
9. Looks like the right side of the box is not talking to the left side of the box. That's reminds me McLaren 2007!

Or Toro Rosso 2015? However Sainz and Norris got on well, so I don't think it is fair to say that Sainz = political troubles as a general rule.

Id say its more duo to fact that Norris was rookie not being expected to beat Sainz easily, and actually Sainz beating him.

The way Sainz beat Norris on pace was something he could never repeat with Leclerc, therefore some shananingans csn be expected in the background.

[ferkan]

“Free to fight” means “free to fight”.

Been that way since the beginning of 2021.

If Ferrari wanted a strictly #2 driver, they would’ve picked a slower driver or outright established expectations of a hierarchy at contract signing.

They have done neither and hopefully will not going forward.

Monaco and Silverstone not being complete Ferrari cock up of Leclercs face and Leclerc is ~40 pts ahead. Thats similar to Max - Perez gap...

Leclerc cannot be expected to dominate him (which he did up until this point in season), if Ferrari demotes him from winning position to 4th every couple races.

[JPower]

“Free to fight” means “free to fight”.

Been that way since the beginning of 2021.

If Ferrari wanted a strictly #2 driver, they would’ve picked a slower driver or outright established expectations of a hierarchy at contract signing.

They have done neither and hopefully will not going forward.

Monaco and Silverstone not being complete Ferrari cock up of Leclercs face and Leclerc is ~40 pts ahead. Thats similar to Max - Perez gap...

Leclerc cannot be expected to dominate him (which he did up until this point in season), if Ferrari demotes him from winning position to 4th every couple races.

Good thing we live in reality and not an imaginary world as hard as that is to accept for some of you.

Let the fight continue. If someone pulls out a big lead or is mathematically eliminated, I'm sure you'll see what you want.

[aleks_ader]

Normally i dont say anything but to say that Sainz is toxic is something to behold. Hahah

[Steven]

If for a second you put down those sainz tinted glasses you will realise it that its not a Ideal, equal for all...SWJ sport. there is only going to be one race winner, one drivers champ, one constructors winner. so end of the day they have to prioritise one and Leclerc is the best bet. [...]

If thay have any real ambition to compete they will have to choose one. if you think Ferrari should prioritize giving Sainz equal and fair chance over titles and wins then... seriously you need to rethink this sport.

Wow. No need to be so aggressive!

The reasons why they are almost on equal points now doesn't really matter. The gap between Ocon and Alonso at Alpine can also not be described by pace alone. But in the end, the points are all that matter.

Also, I didn't say Sainz was better or clearly faster than Leclerc. The point is that Ferrari shouldn't choose as long as both have a reasonable chance. They could choose to not let them fight among them, but anything else would be unfair to either driver.

Let's say Leclerc's car breaks down in the next four races, and Sainz is second in all four. Are you going to prioritize Sainz while Leclerc has a chance to be first or second in the championship? I don't think Ferrari would, and we should all be happy about it. Let's not return to 2002. That was miserable.

[JPower]

Stans screaming at the actual owner of this forum. Absolutely unhinged behavior.