2022 Austrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, July 08 - 10

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DChemTech
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Re: 2022 Austrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, July 08 - 10

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f1jcw wrote:
12 Jul 2022, 14:17
RZS10 wrote:
12 Jul 2022, 13:32
Those are all most likely smoke bombs (on dutch stores they're called 'rookbom' and the colour orange is mostly sold out, lol) and the smoke they produce is highly hazardous to health and should under no circumstances be inhaled, some are even based on a pressed sulfur compound, here's excerpts from the safety instructions from such products:

"Keep your distance from the smoke at all times and avoid direct contact with the smoke produced. Prevent damage to objects and persons. The smoke can discolor objects. The flame can ignite a fire, be careful!"

"Only for exterior use. Do not throw at people or objects. Do not inhale the smoke. Contains hazardous chemical substances: solvent, potassium, chlorate, black powder"

"Keep a minimum distance of at least 4 meters to objects and people. Do not use in the vicinity of crowds or delicate objects as the smoke is harmful and can leave staining."

We've all seen the POV videos from the stands of people just standing right in the cloud of orange smoke desperately trying to cover their noses/mouths - not only does it make it impossible to see the action on track (even if it does not disturb the drivers) but those who use them right in the stands expose those around them and themselves to serious health risks (which in many jurisdictions is considered malicious injury, here's an article about a case where the use of such a smoke bomb 'Rauchtopf' lead to a conviction) but inadvertantly also damage their belongings (again, malicious injury to property).

There's a very good reason why the usage of those is outlawed in most other sports.
How are people even able to buy this. I can understand if stuck up in a mountain or lost at sea, but don't see any use beyond that


Reading the F1 boards and some people defending the issues, I'm at a lose.
That's probably one route - maritime supply stores.

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RZS10
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Re: 2022 Austrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, July 08 - 10

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They are freely available, i could order a bunch on amazon right now.
Main intended (or sold as) use is as background decoration at parties (gender reveal or whatever), photoshoots (tape it to the rear of a bike offroading), videoshoots etc ...

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Sieper
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Re: 2022 Austrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, July 08 - 10

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They were stuck on a mountain 😝

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Sieper
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Re: 2022 Austrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, July 08 - 10

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Everything comes under scrutiny, again, Hamilton himself has talked about (even the smoke) it and days after the race this s now the only thing filling up the forums.

Valerossi had yellow smoke for years. Never did I see anyone complain. For me all that orange and smoke is not needed, but the whole public campaign against it isn’t needed too.

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RZS10
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Re: 2022 Austrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, July 08 - 10

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This race the officials seemingly decided to be almost draconian when it came to track limits, especially considering the last race, right?

The Track Limit section of the event notes said the following:
In accordance with the provisions of Article 33.3, the white lines define the track edges. During Qualifying, Sprint and the Race, each time a driver fails to negotiate with the exit of turn 10, will result in that lap time and the immediately following lap time being invalidated by the Stewards.
They used the broad "the white line is the track limit everywhere" definition, but then only explicitly mention T10, i guess because the next lap was also supposed to be invalidated, so that addition was needed.

But looking at the deleted lap charts for the race, the qualifying and the sprint it becomes evident that they only actively monitored T1, T9 and T10, even though drivers were just as likely to go wide on the exit of T3 (usually a time loss), the exit of T6 or entry of T7 (time gain) and the exit of T7 which is the same as cutting the apex at T8 (time gain).

The only corner that was also noted was Lando in T7 for going wide between T6 and T7 and hitting the gravel in quali but that was very obvious and shown live in the world feed - so impossible to miss.

So it is not at all surprising that they did not notice Perez cutting T8 during the Q2 session and that they ignored others going off track for example in T8 repeatedly.

So in the end they still managed to be sloppy and inconsistent despite the harsh and pedantic enforcement of track limits because they only did so for selected corners and ignored breaches of the provision in the race director's notes in all the others.

Just_a_fan
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Re: 2022 Austrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, July 08 - 10

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basti313 wrote:
12 Jul 2022, 11:01
Just_a_fan wrote:
12 Jul 2022, 10:50
Sieper wrote:
12 Jul 2022, 10:16
I haven't seen anything malicious (as like on Silverstone, just happy faces). Not even booing this time. Yet it is all we read about.
Did you hear of people being sexually assaulted at Silverstone or just the childish booing of a driver?

The reason we read about sexual assault is because it's rather more serious than a bit of driver booing. It's amazing that some people want to ignore the very nasty things that are alleged to have happened, presumably because they share a national or driver preference affiliation with those alleged to have perpetrated the crimes.

It's OK to be Dutch and a Max fan, it's also ok to be Dutch and a Max fan and condemn the actions of similar people when they do heinous things such as grope women. It's not ok to try to suggest that a bit of childish booing elsewhere is in anyway the same thing as groping women. Groping women is a criminal offence in most jurisdictions. Booing a driver isn't.
If Max fans grope women, Max should be excluded from the championship, right?

You are mixing two things that have nothing to do with each other. One thing is sports and related to fans, the crowd. The other thing is a crime by individuals that the police should take care of.
I have no idea where you got the idea that I think Max should be excluded from the championship. :roll:

The sport has to also take responsibility for the actions of those that attend. If that means more security and more crowd stewards, for example, then the sport should fund it.
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.

Just_a_fan
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Re: 2022 Austrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, July 08 - 10

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Wouter wrote:
12 Jul 2022, 11:59
who can still be found through images/video's, who will certainly be there, will be denied access to further events.
That's the sort of thing that needs to happen. They do it in other sports. If a person that does such a thing - along with his immediate group - are ejected and then refused entry to any F1 event in future, may be they will start to police themselves and stop those around them from being asses.

It would require some investment in staff / technology to implement it, however, which is why the FIA / Liberty need to be involved.
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.

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wogx
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Re: 2022 Austrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, July 08 - 10

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But we have a problem - there is no evidence of such misbehaviours, so FIA/Liberty couldn't do nothing with it. Instead we've got heavy-handed, false accusations of homophobia that could have destroyed someone's life in this day and age. Someone threw them around as a joke, with no regard for the consequences, and FIA/Liberty did nothing about it.
Kukułka zwyczajna, kukułka pospolita – nazwy ludowe: gżegżółka, zazula (Cuculus canorus) – gatunek średniego ptaka wędrownego z podrodziny kukułek (Cuculinae) w rodzinie kukułkowatych (Cuculidae). Jedyny w Europie Środkowej pasożyt lęgowy. Zamieszkuje strefę umiarkowaną.

Just_a_fan
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Re: 2022 Austrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, July 08 - 10

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wogx wrote:
12 Jul 2022, 22:06
But we have a problem - there is no evidence of such misbehaviours, so FIA/Liberty couldn't do nothing with it. Instead we've got heavy-handed, false accusations of homophobia that could have destroyed someone's life in this day and age. Someone threw them around as a joke, with no regard for the consequences, and FIA/Liberty did nothing about it.
There are more accusations than just the two women featured in the thread above.

But, hey, let's just let --- happen because it's easier than admitting there is a problem.
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.

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chrisc90
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Re: 2022 Austrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, July 08 - 10

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Just_a_fan wrote:
12 Jul 2022, 22:13
wogx wrote:
12 Jul 2022, 22:06
But we have a problem - there is no evidence of such misbehaviours, so FIA/Liberty couldn't do nothing with it. Instead we've got heavy-handed, false accusations of homophobia that could have destroyed someone's life in this day and age. Someone threw them around as a joke, with no regard for the consequences, and FIA/Liberty did nothing about it.
There are more accusations than just the two women featured in the thread above.

But, hey, let's just let --- happen because it's easier than admitting there is a problem.
Has there been any word of reports from the Austrian Police?

I mean some of these claims going around are WAYYY above the level of Liberty and the FIA. If there were people being sexually assaulted/against their will....then its a matter for the police to sort out. These are serious crimes that will carry prison sentences for those guilty, Not just a venue or sporting ban.
Mess with the Bull - you get the horns.

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wogx
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Re: 2022 Austrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, July 08 - 10

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As I wrote earlier,

wogx wrote:
10 Jul 2022, 14:48
If there were real dangerous situations, then harassing fans should be handed over to the police
But I don't understand how people are letting go some behaviours. Can you condemn such "jokes"? Or such behaviour is not a problem in your eyes?
Kukułka zwyczajna, kukułka pospolita – nazwy ludowe: gżegżółka, zazula (Cuculus canorus) – gatunek średniego ptaka wędrownego z podrodziny kukułek (Cuculinae) w rodzinie kukułkowatych (Cuculidae). Jedyny w Europie Środkowej pasożyt lęgowy. Zamieszkuje strefę umiarkowaną.

Just_a_fan
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Re: 2022 Austrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, July 08 - 10

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chrisc90 wrote:
12 Jul 2022, 22:21
Just_a_fan wrote:
12 Jul 2022, 22:13
wogx wrote:
12 Jul 2022, 22:06
But we have a problem - there is no evidence of such misbehaviours, so FIA/Liberty couldn't do nothing with it. Instead we've got heavy-handed, false accusations of homophobia that could have destroyed someone's life in this day and age. Someone threw them around as a joke, with no regard for the consequences, and FIA/Liberty did nothing about it.
There are more accusations than just the two women featured in the thread above.

But, hey, let's just let --- happen because it's easier than admitting there is a problem.
Has there been any word of reports from the Austrian Police?

I mean some of these claims going around are WAYYY above the level of Liberty and the FIA. If there were people being sexually assaulted/against their will....then its a matter for the police to sort out. These are serious crimes that will carry prison sentences for those guilty, Not just a venue or sporting ban.
How many police are there at the circuit? Where are they positioned? Are they easy to get to for general public?

As with "real life", most such cases don't get reported to the police. The reality is that even if a victim went to the police, assuming they could find them at the track, would they be able to find the person that groped them in a large crowd? Most women aren't confrontational, especially when faced with men who have consumed alcohol and are already acting poorly, so the women are unlikely to spend time remembering location information, etc. They're just going to want to get away. And if there is a large group involved, that will be even more important to them.

I realise that people don't like to hear that F1 fans can be bad people, especially if there are suggestions that they share a common allegiance / nationality with those same people. But that isn't a reason to just bad mouth alleged victims and try to brush the whole thing under the carpet.

I can guarantee that if this had been reported about Brits at the British GP, or Spaniards at the Spanish GP, a lot of people in this forum would be shouting for the heads of the perpetrators. And I would join them then too.
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.

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wogx
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Re: 2022 Austrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, July 08 - 10

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Ok. To me it is really strange that one can fully and justifiably condemn one evil but not say a word about the other one.
Kukułka zwyczajna, kukułka pospolita – nazwy ludowe: gżegżółka, zazula (Cuculus canorus) – gatunek średniego ptaka wędrownego z podrodziny kukułek (Cuculinae) w rodzinie kukułkowatych (Cuculidae). Jedyny w Europie Środkowej pasożyt lęgowy. Zamieszkuje strefę umiarkowaną.

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chrisc90
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Re: 2022 Austrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, July 08 - 10

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Just_a_fan wrote:
12 Jul 2022, 22:51
chrisc90 wrote:
12 Jul 2022, 22:21
Just_a_fan wrote:
12 Jul 2022, 22:13


There are more accusations than just the two women featured in the thread above.

But, hey, let's just let --- happen because it's easier than admitting there is a problem.
Has there been any word of reports from the Austrian Police?

I mean some of these claims going around are WAYYY above the level of Liberty and the FIA. If there were people being sexually assaulted/against their will....then its a matter for the police to sort out. These are serious crimes that will carry prison sentences for those guilty, Not just a venue or sporting ban.
How many police are there at the circuit? Where are they positioned? Are they easy to get to for general public?

As with "real life", most such cases don't get reported to the police. The reality is that even if a victim went to the police, assuming they could find them at the track, would they be able to find the person that groped them in a large crowd? Most women aren't confrontational, especially when faced with men who have consumed alcohol and are already acting poorly, so the women are unlikely to spend time remembering location information, etc. They're just going to want to get away. And if there is a large group involved, that will be even more important to them.

I realise that people don't like to hear that F1 fans can be bad people, especially if there are suggestions that they share a common allegiance / nationality with those same people. But that isn't a reason to just bad mouth alleged victims and try to brush the whole thing under the carpet.

I can guarantee that if this had been reported about Brits at the British GP, or Spaniards at the Spanish GP, a lot of people in this forum would be shouting for the heads of the perpetrators. And I would join them then too.
I dont agree with any of the claims that have been brought up, whether true or false. (just to put that out there to begin with)


However, If I was victim to a sexual crime, the last place I would be broadcasting it is on Twitter in all honesty. Something just doesnt seem to add up. I mean if someone pulled your trousers down , or lifted a skirt up, exposing your private parts, what would you do realistically? You have the options of 1) Laughing it off if your that way inclined. 2) Reporting it to a steward 3) reporting it to the police 4) telling the world on twitter/social media. I can almost guarantee number 4 would be the last one I would ever dream of. Surely sticking your experience out infront of MILLIONS of people/followers will just bring further embarrassment to yourself.

I really dont think nationality doesnt play a part in any of this. Even British or Spanish fans aren't angels. See the video I posted the other week on the British fans with their chants. "Verstappen is a W**ker", "Horner is a sex offender" were both heard, even if people try to brush it off at a 'club' when clearly its inside the circuit. Is that acceptable? No its not.

Maybe some people just have an 'agenda' against the Dutch? As we have seen with the case that was posted above which was quite rightly called out in order for fans to get access to pit garages. That in itself is the highest level of being a scumbag there is going.

Once again, I dont condone any of the above or claims that have been made.
Mess with the Bull - you get the horns.

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wogx
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Re: 2022 Austrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, July 08 - 10

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So, let's go with another piece of pro-Verstappen propaganda /s
Red Bull fans are not constantly drunk & abusive, sometimes they can have some fun together with Mercedes fans

Image
Kukułka zwyczajna, kukułka pospolita – nazwy ludowe: gżegżółka, zazula (Cuculus canorus) – gatunek średniego ptaka wędrownego z podrodziny kukułek (Cuculinae) w rodzinie kukułkowatych (Cuculidae). Jedyny w Europie Środkowej pasożyt lęgowy. Zamieszkuje strefę umiarkowaną.