Mercedes W13

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter do not belong here.
saviour stivala
saviour stivala
52
Joined: 25 Apr 2018, 12:54

Re: Mercedes W13

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About time they show some real progress as their nearest finish to the leaders in the last race was three quarters of a second behind for number 44 and a full second for number 63.

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
593
Joined: 31 Jan 2010, 20:37

Re: Mercedes W13

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Stu wrote:
18 Jul 2022, 07:40
Henri wrote:
18 Jul 2022, 02:37
https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... -upgrades/
Engineers say the best upgrade is yet to come.. and its gonna be secret
That will work well in the era of “show & tell”…
We've seen teams say "changes to X" to "improve performance" in the show and tell. Pretty easy to hide what's been done when that is all that's required.
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.

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Shakeman
33
Joined: 21 Mar 2011, 13:31
Location: UK

Re: Mercedes W13

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"Our best upgrade will be one you don't see,"

This is the auto translation, which seems to be doing a lot of work to become a 'secret upgrade' if the translation is accurate. My German is limited to badly counting to ten and the phrases I learned from the Victor comic in my childhood, 'Gott im Himmel!' so I can't verify...

Tekniko
Tekniko
0
Joined: 08 Jul 2022, 17:02

Re: Mercedes W13

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Shakeman wrote:
18 Jul 2022, 10:58
"Our best upgrade will be one you don't see,"

This is the auto translation, which seems to be doing a lot of work to become a 'secret upgrade' if the translation is accurate. My German is limited to badly counting to ten and the phrases I learned from the Victor comic in my childhood, 'Gott im Himmel!' so I can't verify...
I am German and cam confirm that this translation is correct.

torpor
torpor
1
Joined: 15 Jan 2015, 20:01

Re: Mercedes W13

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So that Artical in a credible serious German magazine AMuS sounds very optimistic for Mercedes. They write that the gap to Ferrari is much closer than it looked in Spielberg. There seems to be no reason to change the concept.

<< Bouncing is no longer an issue at all. The findings are now being incorporated into upgrades that will come to the W13 in the next two races. Visually not necessarily spectacular, but highly efficient, according to the team. "Our best upgrade will be one that is invisible,“ say the engineers mysteriously.
Paul Ricard plays Mercedes into the cards. It's almost the ideal terrain. Fluid curves, smooth surface. If the Silver Arrows also get halfway over the bumps of the Hungaroring, then victories after the summer break are no longer an illusion. >>

djones
djones
20
Joined: 17 Mar 2005, 15:01

Re: Mercedes W13

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Take this with a pinch of salt, but I read on another forum that for Spa there is a big upgrade and a new engine.

Add in the TD changes and we might actually see the first legitimate win on pure pace for Mercedes.

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chrisc90
41
Joined: 23 Feb 2022, 21:22

Re: Mercedes W13

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Aren’t engines homologated?
Certainly won’t see a power increase.
Mess with the Bull - you get the horns.

mkay
mkay
16
Joined: 21 May 2010, 21:30

Re: Mercedes W13

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chrisc90 wrote:
18 Jul 2022, 17:30
Aren’t engines homologated?
Certainly won’t see a power increase.
MGU-K hasn't been homologated yet - which is what the news have been referring to. I imagine all 4 PU manufacturers will upgrade the K-unit prior to the deadline of 1 Sep 2022.

Also, reliability improvements remain allowed on homologated PU parts (ICE, MGU-H, TC) but I think it is subject to review/agreement by all other PU manufacturers + FIA?

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ringo
230
Joined: 29 Mar 2009, 10:57

Re: Mercedes W13

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ringo wrote:
20 Jun 2022, 18:39
So I was wondering.. Could Redbull have a sprung floor? and is this allowed by the regulations?
A sprung and damped floor could greatly reduce the impact of bounding and porpoising. Instead of depending solely on the suspension to deal with the porpoising, a suspension can be rigged into the floor.
Those same brackets that we see in the floor of the redbull behind the sidepods may well be damped.
We have already seen the spring and damper in the keel.
Added to that running rake in the car simplifies bouncing as the car will touch down on the keel first before the rear squats to the ground.
I think Mercedes need to investigate this and implement it. Soften the cars suspension and install a suspension in the floor, so that there is a degree of freedom between the floor and chassis under extreme loads.
Looks like the FIA are catching on... I had my suspicions as far back as June. The hens will come home to roost for redbull and ferrari. So much for bashing the zeropods. The car may well be the fastest after the FIA clamps down.

https://www.planetf1.com/news/toto-wolf ... -breaches/
“Some teams have skids that actually disappear when the car hits the bottom [of the ground],” Wolff told reporters,
“The reason for skids is they are the limitation of how much [wear of the board] you can have. If the skid can disappear miraculously into the floor, that’s clearly against the regulations.

“Then the second thing is there is a plank that can deflect, or that basically also moves away more than the tolerance should be.

“The tolerance is one millimetre and if a plank moves away many more millimetres up into the car, obviously you gain some performance there too.
For Sure!!

OO7
OO7
171
Joined: 06 Apr 2010, 17:49

Re: Mercedes W13

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Excellent call Ringo! =D>
Looks like you pretty much nailed it or at the very least suspected the exact same methods of potential exploitation the F.I.A have.

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PlatinumZealot
559
Joined: 12 Jun 2008, 03:45

Re: Mercedes W13

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Shakeman wrote:
18 Jul 2022, 10:58
"Our best upgrade will be one you don't see,"

This is the auto translation, which seems to be doing a lot of work to become a 'secret upgrade' if the translation is accurate. My German is limited to badly counting to ten and the phrases I learned from the Victor comic in my childhood, 'Gott im Himmel!' so I can't verify...
There is no Mercedes quote from that page so be doubtful!
🖐️✌️☝️👀👌✍️🐎🏆🙏

Racing Green in 2028

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
593
Joined: 31 Jan 2010, 20:37

Re: Mercedes W13

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chrisc90 wrote:
18 Jul 2022, 17:30
Aren’t engines homologated?
Certainly won’t see a power increase.
Reliability upgrades are possible. If you're running your ICE slightly below its power level because of a reliability issue, sorting that issue would bring performance and would be legal.
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.

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chrisc90
41
Joined: 23 Feb 2022, 21:22

Re: Mercedes W13

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Just_a_fan wrote:
19 Jul 2022, 00:27
chrisc90 wrote:
18 Jul 2022, 17:30
Aren’t engines homologated?
Certainly won’t see a power increase.
Reliability upgrades are possible. If you're running your ICE slightly below its power level because of a reliability issue, sorting that issue would bring performance and would be legal.

Do reliability upgrades not have to be warranted though? As in there has been a number of problems with xyz component or the engine has failed in the same way a couple times
Mess with the Bull - you get the horns.

sosic2121
sosic2121
13
Joined: 08 Jun 2016, 12:14

Re: Mercedes W13

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Just_a_fan wrote:
19 Jul 2022, 00:27
chrisc90 wrote:
18 Jul 2022, 17:30
Aren’t engines homologated?
Certainly won’t see a power increase.
Reliability upgrades are possible. If you're running your ICE slightly below its power level because of a reliability issue, sorting that issue would bring performance and would be legal.
Actually, there was a story that ferrari ran their first PU with lower power level and if everything goes OK, they will increase the power with second PU. I have no idea at what level they could be now :mrgreen:

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
593
Joined: 31 Jan 2010, 20:37

Re: Mercedes W13

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chrisc90 wrote:
19 Jul 2022, 09:34
Just_a_fan wrote:
19 Jul 2022, 00:27
chrisc90 wrote:
18 Jul 2022, 17:30
Aren’t engines homologated?
Certainly won’t see a power increase.
Reliability upgrades are possible. If you're running your ICE slightly below its power level because of a reliability issue, sorting that issue would bring performance and would be legal.

Do reliability upgrades not have to be warranted though? As in there has been a number of problems with xyz component or the engine has failed in the same way a couple times
I've no idea, but the teams are well versed in gaming the rules so if they can, they will.
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.