2022 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

[Laserguru]

Who is to say that reliability, or the lack of it, has to be demonstrated on track? It only tells us some teams do not know which parts are unreliable.

Not sure if I understand this message... obviously that´s true, none said the contrary, but not sure what´s your point

Ferrari suffered fatal failures which for sure will be fixed. However, others may have reliability issues they discovered on the testbench. So coming 6 month I expect convergence on performance and reliability. Pure speculation on Mercedes and Honda taking the cautious aproach and Ferrari being bold.

[LM10]

I hope that was written before Austria, because...

https://cdn.topcarnews.net/media/wp-con ... 044786.jpg

Not really the same concept. It’s still the RedBull-style with an additional notch on the inner part.

Alpine's update looks MUCH closer to Ferrari's concept than Red Bulls.

Definitely not. The shaping looks similar to RedBull’s. They’ve “copied” it after all and now they’re working on it and adding their own stuff.

[Drift4794]

Inside Story on Sainz's first win!

[basti313]

So how is the engine situation for Sainz?
Is it true, that the old engine Nr. 2 blew up and not Nr. 3?

Engine 1: Bah, Saudi, Oz, Monaco
Engine 2: Imola, Mia, Bcn, Baku, Can, Aus - blowup
Engine 3: Stone

With 10 races to go that would be super marginal, but at least doable compared to Lec who lost his engine with two more races to do on the rest.

[CRazyLemon]

So how is the engine situation for Sainz?
Is it true, that the old engine Nr. 2 blew up and not Nr. 3?

Engine 1: Bah, Saudi, Oz, Monaco
Engine 2: Imola, Mia, Bcn, Baku, Can, Aus - blowup
Engine 3: Stone

With 10 races to go that would be super marginal, but at least doable compared to Lec who lost his engine with two more races to do on the rest.

Not sure if the last planned upgrade will require PU 4 but definitely reliability upgrade would push components to grid penalty territory, so we should expect PU 4 at some stage for Sainz.

Leclerc has PU 3 and PU 4 for the 11 remaining races, I guess we should expect PU 5 with reliability and last proper upgrades in place.

[basti313]

So how is the engine situation for Sainz?
Is it true, that the old engine Nr. 2 blew up and not Nr. 3?

Engine 1: Bah, Saudi, Oz, Monaco
Engine 2: Imola, Mia, Bcn, Baku, Can, Aus - blowup
Engine 3: Stone

With 10 races to go that would be super marginal, but at least doable compared to Lec who lost his engine with two more races to do on the rest.

Not sure if the last planned upgrade will require PU 4 but definitely reliability upgrade would push components to grid penalty territory, so we should expect PU 4 at some stage for Sainz.

Leclerc has PU 3 and PU 4 for the 11 remaining races, I guess we should expect PU 5 with reliability and last proper upgrades in place.

Well, both PU2 blew up, so maybe just these TC had an issue.
Why do you expect Lec to use another engine? He already took the penalty. I do not think you can afford to just throw in another engine if you want to be competitive. It was a different game last year with Merc vs. Verstappen and noone else. But this season...if you start from the back, you have an issue to get to P5.

[continuum16]

So how is the engine situation for Sainz?
Is it true, that the old engine Nr. 2 blew up and not Nr. 3?

Engine 1: Bah, Saudi, Oz, Monaco
Engine 2: Imola, Mia, Bcn, Baku, Can, Aus - blowup
Engine 3: Stone

With 10 races to go that would be super marginal, but at least doable compared to Lec who lost his engine with two more races to do on the rest.

Not sure if the last planned upgrade will require PU 4 but definitely reliability upgrade would push components to grid penalty territory, so we should expect PU 4 at some stage for Sainz.

Leclerc has PU 3 and PU 4 for the 11 remaining races, I guess we should expect PU 5 with reliability and last proper upgrades in place.

Well, both PU2 blew up, so maybe just these TC had an issue.
Why do you expect Lec to use another engine? He already took the penalty. I do not think you can afford to just throw in another engine if you want to be competitive. It was a different game last year with Merc vs. Verstappen and noone else. But this season...if you start from the back, you have an issue to get to P5.

Logically if you have used at least 4 different PUs at some point through the first 11 races, I would expect at least a PU5 to show up in the remaining 11 races. That's assuming PU3 and PU4 are more reliable than the first two. If the pattern follows verbatim from the first half of the season, we could see PU6 or even PU7.

For sure they would rather take a grid penalty for an extra PU with reliability/hybrid updates than not, because the PU is homologated for the next three years. One race with a grid penalty is nothing compared to years of reduced competitiveness.

[basti313]

Not sure if the last planned upgrade will require PU 4 but definitely reliability upgrade would push components to grid penalty territory, so we should expect PU 4 at some stage for Sainz.

Leclerc has PU 3 and PU 4 for the 11 remaining races, I guess we should expect PU 5 with reliability and last proper upgrades in place.

Well, both PU2 blew up, so maybe just these TC had an issue.
Why do you expect Lec to use another engine? He already took the penalty. I do not think you can afford to just throw in another engine if you want to be competitive. It was a different game last year with Merc vs. Verstappen and noone else. But this season...if you start from the back, you have an issue to get to P5.

Logically if you have used at least 4 different PUs at some point through the first 11 races, I would expect at least a PU5 to show up in the remaining 11 races. That's assuming PU3 and PU4 are more reliable than the first two. If the pattern follows verbatim from the first half of the season, we could see PU6 or even PU7.

For sure they would rather take a grid penalty for an extra PU with reliability/hybrid updates than not, because the PU is homologated for the next three years. One race with a grid penalty is nothing compared to years of reduced competitiveness.

Ok, but I am reading the beginning differently. If my list is real, then they would have cycled the three engines through the year. If you go on with the list, ignore the Austria failure and assume the usage of Nr. 3 in Spa and Monza, then you end with Nr1 and Nr2 being used until Brazil.
They also planned from the beginning a very early usage of engine nr.3, otherwise they would not have dropped it into the car in Silverstone, clearly speaking against a development program with a later reliability upgrade. This is the same for all Ferrari powered cars, while Merc and Redbull are not yet using engine nr.3.

To me it looks like a quality issue in the TC, that now killed two engines. I can not yet see a general issue.

[continuum16]

Well, both PU2 blew up, so maybe just these TC had an issue.
Why do you expect Lec to use another engine? He already took the penalty. I do not think you can afford to just throw in another engine if you want to be competitive. It was a different game last year with Merc vs. Verstappen and noone else. But this season...if you start from the back, you have an issue to get to P5.

Logically if you have used at least 4 different PUs at some point through the first 11 races, I would expect at least a PU5 to show up in the remaining 11 races. That's assuming PU3 and PU4 are more reliable than the first two. If the pattern follows verbatim from the first half of the season, we could see PU6 or even PU7.

For sure they would rather take a grid penalty for an extra PU with reliability/hybrid updates than not, because the PU is homologated for the next three years. One race with a grid penalty is nothing compared to years of reduced competitiveness.

Ok, but I am reading the beginning differently. If my list is real, then they would have cycled the three engines through the year. If you go on with the list, ignore the Austria failure and assume the usage of Nr. 3 in Spa and Monza, then you end with Nr1 and Nr2 being used until Brazil.
They also planned from the beginning a very early usage of engine nr.3, otherwise they would not have dropped it into the car in Silverstone, clearly speaking against a development program with a later reliability upgrade. This is the same for all Ferrari powered cars, while Merc and Redbull are not yet using engine nr.3.

To me it looks like a quality issue in the TC, that now killed two engines. I can not yet see a general issue.

As far as general issues go, most of the customer teams' failures seem to be MGU-K related. But that's more for the PU tread probably.

As far as the actual works team goes, I see the early use of engine 3 as a sign that they would already commit to 4 rather than forgoing the option of additional developments, but I guess we won't know until September what their strategy is.

[basti313]

Logically if you have used at least 4 different PUs at some point through the first 11 races, I would expect at least a PU5 to show up in the remaining 11 races. That's assuming PU3 and PU4 are more reliable than the first two. If the pattern follows verbatim from the first half of the season, we could see PU6 or even PU7.

For sure they would rather take a grid penalty for an extra PU with reliability/hybrid updates than not, because the PU is homologated for the next three years. One race with a grid penalty is nothing compared to years of reduced competitiveness.

Ok, but I am reading the beginning differently. If my list is real, then they would have cycled the three engines through the year. If you go on with the list, ignore the Austria failure and assume the usage of Nr. 3 in Spa and Monza, then you end with Nr1 and Nr2 being used until Brazil.
They also planned from the beginning a very early usage of engine nr.3, otherwise they would not have dropped it into the car in Silverstone, clearly speaking against a development program with a later reliability upgrade. This is the same for all Ferrari powered cars, while Merc and Redbull are not yet using engine nr.3.

To me it looks like a quality issue in the TC, that now killed two engines. I can not yet see a general issue.

As far as general issues go, most of the customer teams' failures seem to be MGU-K related. But that's more for the PU tread probably.

As far as the actual works team goes, I see the early use of engine 3 as a sign that they would already commit to 4 rather than forgoing the option of additional developments, but I guess we won't know until September what their strategy is.

Well, if they would have planned with Nr.4 on Sainz, it would not have been Nr.2 to blow up in race nr 6...

[dialtone]

Ok, but I am reading the beginning differently. If my list is real, then they would have cycled the three engines through the year. If you go on with the list, ignore the Austria failure and assume the usage of Nr. 3 in Spa and Monza, then you end with Nr1 and Nr2 being used until Brazil.
They also planned from the beginning a very early usage of engine nr.3, otherwise they would not have dropped it into the car in Silverstone, clearly speaking against a development program with a later reliability upgrade. This is the same for all Ferrari powered cars, while Merc and Redbull are not yet using engine nr.3.

To me it looks like a quality issue in the TC, that now killed two engines. I can not yet see a general issue.

As far as general issues go, most of the customer teams' failures seem to be MGU-K related. But that's more for the PU tread probably.

As far as the actual works team goes, I see the early use of engine 3 as a sign that they would already commit to 4 rather than forgoing the option of additional developments, but I guess we won't know until September what their strategy is.

Well, if they would have planned with Nr.4 on Sainz, it would not have been Nr.2 to blow up in race nr 6...

They will definitely use PU4 with Sainz since they need to update the ERS in september. On top of it: spa, monza, suzuka, mexico and brazil are races where the engine makes a difference, unlikely they can run a single engine full beans till the end with these races coming up.

[basti313]

As far as general issues go, most of the customer teams' failures seem to be MGU-K related. But that's more for the PU tread probably.

As far as the actual works team goes, I see the early use of engine 3 as a sign that they would already commit to 4 rather than forgoing the option of additional developments, but I guess we won't know until September what their strategy is.

Well, if they would have planned with Nr.4 on Sainz, it would not have been Nr.2 to blow up in race nr 6...

They will definitely use PU4 with Sainz since they need to update the ERS in september. On top of it: spa, monza, suzuka, mexico and brazil are races where the engine makes a difference, unlikely they can run a single engine full beans till the end with these races coming up.

Why do they need to update? They had the update ready and canceled it for reliability. There is still no confirmation if the update was not used for the turbos that caused the mess. There is a big chance, that for Spa they have nothing else than what they have now.
Furthermore they do not need to bring the updates on the Ferrari in the fight for the WCC. They have AR and Haas to test the engines, same as RedBull does with Torro.

For the power tracks: I am talking about the initial plan. The plan they certainly made before the season looks to me like the "tested" the engine for Monza and maybe also Spa in Silverstone. I do not see that anyone is planning with 4 engines from the beginning.

[dialtone]

Well, if they would have planned with Nr.4 on Sainz, it would not have been Nr.2 to blow up in race nr 6...

They will definitely use PU4 with Sainz since they need to update the ERS in september. On top of it: spa, monza, suzuka, mexico and brazil are races where the engine makes a difference, unlikely they can run a single engine full beans till the end with these races coming up.

Why do they need to update? They had the update ready and canceled it for reliability. There is still no confirmation if the update was not used for the turbos that caused the mess. There is a big chance, that for Spa they have nothing else than what they have now.
Furthermore they do not need to bring the updates on the Ferrari in the fight for the WCC. They have AR and Haas to test the engines, same as RedBull does with Torro.

For the power tracks: I am talking about the initial plan. The plan they certainly made before the season looks to me like the "tested" the engine for Monza and maybe also Spa in Silverstone. I do not see that anyone is planning with 4 engines from the beginning.

They need the update because it's the last power update till 2026. Makes no sense to not do it.

[bluechris]

They will definitely use PU4 with Sainz since they need to update the ERS in september. On top of it: spa, monza, suzuka, mexico and brazil are races where the engine makes a difference, unlikely they can run a single engine full beans till the end with these races coming up.

Why do they need to update? They had the update ready and canceled it for reliability. There is still no confirmation if the update was not used for the turbos that caused the mess. There is a big chance, that for Spa they have nothing else than what they have now.
Furthermore they do not need to bring the updates on the Ferrari in the fight for the WCC. They have AR and Haas to test the engines, same as RedBull does with Torro.

For the power tracks: I am talking about the initial plan. The plan they certainly made before the season looks to me like the "tested" the engine for Monza and maybe also Spa in Silverstone. I do not see that anyone is planning with 4 engines from the beginning.

They need the update because it's the last power update till 2026. Makes no sense to not do it.

Correct but they can give the newer version 1st to AR or Haas.

[dialtone]

Why do they need to update? They had the update ready and canceled it for reliability. There is still no confirmation if the update was not used for the turbos that caused the mess. There is a big chance, that for Spa they have nothing else than what they have now.
Furthermore they do not need to bring the updates on the Ferrari in the fight for the WCC. They have AR and Haas to test the engines, same as RedBull does with Torro.

For the power tracks: I am talking about the initial plan. The plan they certainly made before the season looks to me like the "tested" the engine for Monza and maybe also Spa in Silverstone. I do not see that anyone is planning with 4 engines from the beginning.

They need the update because it's the last power update till 2026. Makes no sense to not do it.

Correct but they can give the newer version 1st to AR or Haas.

Why? They must run the same spec for customers as for themselves, there's no advantage in having them run with it first.