2022 French Grand Prix - Le Castellet, July 22 - 24

[JordanFiveOh]

Not sure your comment makes any sense at all, it is Ringo as always. Your love for Mercedes makes you blind and hatred against it's competitors. They are not circumventing the rules just playing it like every team does, even your Mercedes dream team. They probably would not gotten any WK title if they open up the box of cheats from the last years.

The irony is that Ringo typed out an on topic post that makes quite reasonable statements about the actual topic being discussed that I don't think anyone could really argue with.

On the other hand, all you have done is attack him personally and tell him his favourite team "does it too", which is pretty much irrelevant, nor does it invalidate anything he said.

If a car is doing things the rules say it shouldn't but the FIA didn't know because the way they test for compliance couldn't detect it, that's the definition of circumventing the rules.

Whether another teams car also does things beyond the rules doesn't somehow negate that fact.

Yet the point is he’s picked out Ferrari and redbull who have been ‘cheating’. The exact same thing merc have done when they brought a 2 piece plank after running a single piece all season. Yet he fails to mention that.

Not that there is any evidence of either merc, Ferrari or redbull have been ‘cheating’. But they must be cheating because they are doing better than Mercedes’. Why not mention any other team?

Their planks have been multi-piece for years.

[chrisc90]

The irony is that Ringo typed out an on topic post that makes quite reasonable statements about the actual topic being discussed that I don't think anyone could really argue with.

On the other hand, all you have done is attack him personally and tell him his favourite team "does it too", which is pretty much irrelevant, nor does it invalidate anything he said.

If a car is doing things the rules say it shouldn't but the FIA didn't know because the way they test for compliance couldn't detect it, that's the definition of circumventing the rules.

Whether another teams car also does things beyond the rules doesn't somehow negate that fact.

Yet the point is he’s picked out Ferrari and redbull who have been ‘cheating’. The exact same thing merc have done when they brought a 2 piece plank after running a single piece all season. Yet he fails to mention that.

Not that there is any evidence of either merc, Ferrari or redbull have been ‘cheating’. But they must be cheating because they are doing better than Mercedes’. Why not mention any other team?

Their planks have been multi-piece for years.

Even this year? There’s been photos of the merc plank this year…

[ringo]

Not sure your comment makes any sense at all, it is Ringo as always. Your love for Mercedes makes you blind and hatred against it's competitors. They are not circumventing the rules just playing it like every team does, even your Mercedes dream team. They probably would not gotten any WK title if they open up the box of cheats from the last years.

The irony is that Ringo typed out an on topic post that makes quite reasonable statements about the actual topic being discussed that I don't think anyone could really argue with.

On the other hand, all you have done is attack him personally and tell him his favourite team "does it too", which is pretty much irrelevant, nor does it invalidate anything he said.

If a car is doing things the rules say it shouldn't but the FIA didn't know because the way they test for compliance couldn't detect it, that's the definition of circumventing the rules.

Whether another teams car also does things beyond the rules doesn't somehow negate that fact.

Yet the point is he’s picked out Ferrari and redbull who have been ‘cheating’. The exact same thing merc have done when they brought a 2 piece plank after running a single piece all season. Yet he fails to mention that.

Not that there is any evidence of either merc, Ferrari or redbull have been ‘cheating’. But they must be cheating because they are doing better than Mercedes’. Why not mention any other team?

Did you read my last line?
I said that if they are cheating. It does not mean that I am confirming that they are. And if Mercedes is cheating too, then all are obliged to comply with the new directive.
This hogwash about me loving Mercedes has nothing to do with the topic being discussed. I couldn't care less who the team is.
There rules stipulate limits on deflection, and at no point have I ever defended any team circumventing any rule with strict dimensions outlined.

If a team wants to create a new innovation, that is not captured by the rule, like DAS, or some kind of suspension, then sure that's fine, because it was not defined by the rule. The FIA can step in and create a framework around that to capture that in the rules.
But when a team knowingly commissions their engineers to cheat, as it intends to breach regulations, then that is circumventing defined rules to gain an unfair advantage.

[godlameroso]

That's a pretty big if.

[GrizzleBoy]

That's a pretty big if.

Well we've already heard some teams say they'll have to make changes based on the improved plank deflection tests, so probably not that big an if.

[tpe]

Did you read my last line?
I said that if they are cheating. It does not mean that I am confirming that they are. And if Mercedes is cheating too, then all are obliged to comply with the new directive.
This hogwash about me loving Mercedes has nothing to do with the topic being discussed. I couldn't care less who the team is.
There rules stipulate limits on deflection, and at no point have I ever defended any team circumventing any rule with strict dimensions outlined.

If a team wants to create a new innovation, that is not captured by the rule, like DAS, or some kind of suspension, then sure that's fine, because it was not defined by the rule. The FIA can step in and create a framework around that to capture that in the rules.
But when a team knowingly commissions their engineers to cheat, as it intends to breach regulations, then that is circumventing defined rules to gain an unfair advantage.

That bring on the table another question.
If the rule says that "I will measure the deflection at points a, b", and the team designs something to flex at point C, which rule is broken?
An d don't tell me the general rule because that means that the front wings of all teams are illegal.

[Big Tea]

Did you read my last line?
I said that if they are cheating. It does not mean that I am confirming that they are. And if Mercedes is cheating too, then all are obliged to comply with the new directive.
This hogwash about me loving Mercedes has nothing to do with the topic being discussed. I couldn't care less who the team is.
There rules stipulate limits on deflection, and at no point have I ever defended any team circumventing any rule with strict dimensions outlined.

If a team wants to create a new innovation, that is not captured by the rule, like DAS, or some kind of suspension, then sure that's fine, because it was not defined by the rule. The FIA can step in and create a framework around that to capture that in the rules.
But when a team knowingly commissions their engineers to cheat, as it intends to breach regulations, then that is circumventing defined rules to gain an unfair advantage.

That bring on the table another question.
If the rule says that "I will measure the deflection at points a, b", and the team designs something to flex at point C, which rule is broken?
An d don't tell me the general rule because that means that the front wings of all teams are illegal.

I think that is defiantly the case, but it is not being enforced due to the ' all teams ' part. If it was a single team I think it would be. How and how rigorously I would not say.

[dialtone]

Did you read my last line?
I said that if they are cheating. It does not mean that I am confirming that they are. And if Mercedes is cheating too, then all are obliged to comply with the new directive.
This hogwash about me loving Mercedes has nothing to do with the topic being discussed. I couldn't care less who the team is.
There rules stipulate limits on deflection, and at no point have I ever defended any team circumventing any rule with strict dimensions outlined.

If a team wants to create a new innovation, that is not captured by the rule, like DAS, or some kind of suspension, then sure that's fine, because it was not defined by the rule. The FIA can step in and create a framework around that to capture that in the rules.
But when a team knowingly commissions their engineers to cheat, as it intends to breach regulations, then that is circumventing defined rules to gain an unfair advantage.

That bring on the table another question.
If the rule says that "I will measure the deflection at points a, b", and the team designs something to flex at point C, which rule is broken?
An d don't tell me the general rule because that means that the front wings of all teams are illegal.

I think that is defiantly the case, but it is not being enforced due to the ' all teams ' part. If it was a single team I think it would be. How and how rigorously I would not say.

And yet, Sainz and Ferrari were asked to decrease deflection of the front wing by Australia (where they ran tests for it in practice), and now Ferrari is clearly the least flexing front wing of the top 3 teams.

[Big Tea]

That bring on the table another question.
If the rule says that "I will measure the deflection at points a, b", and the team designs something to flex at point C, which rule is broken?
An d don't tell me the general rule because that means that the front wings of all teams are illegal.

I think that is defiantly the case, but it is not being enforced due to the ' all teams ' part. If it was a single team I think it would be. How and how rigorously I would not say.

And yet, Sainz and Ferrari were asked to decrease deflection of the front wing by Australia (where they ran tests for it in practice), and now Ferrari is clearly the least flexing front wing of the top 3 teams.

Were they flexing more so than the others? Possibly there is a point where they break from the pack and and are being considered taking the ****

[RZS10]

I still don't buy the part that they had to change the wing in any way ... because from what i could see some other wings deflect more than they used to at the beginning of the season ... so it would be weird if they had forced one team to change something whilst allowing others to go even further and i would expect the team which would be disadvantaged in such a case to make a fuss about it. In the end it was talked about on sky in FP1 in Melbourne, they ran the sensors but nothing came of it imho

Does anyone have recent video footage from the nose cam of the Ferrari?

[tpe]

We are so out of topic!

[godlameroso]

There's only 3 places where I think track limits could be an issue, exit of turn 2, 6 and 11, the majority of the lap time will be between those corners and the final 2 corners. 11 determines the flow for the last few corners. The front right will be prone to graining because there aren't many high load right handers except for sector 3. The left tires on the other hand see plenty of abuse.

[nico5]

That's a pretty big if.

Well we've already heard some teams say they'll have to make changes based on the improved plank deflection tests, so probably not that big an if.

I don't get this. In F1 there are rules which in some cases are just dos and/or don'ts and then there are "rules" on how to measure things to make sure the so-called spirit of the more vague rules is adhered to. To me this parameters should be considered as part of the rules and exploiting them is not cheating. No wonder nobody ever gets DSQed on these cases.
It's way more annoying when they try and play it on the wording, e.g. cut vs hole in Brawn's double diffuser case and the likes.

[Spoutnik]

Is this THE weekend from Mercedes..? I'm hearing this every race since Barcelona

[chrisc90]

Is this THE weekend from Mercedes..? I'm hearing this every race since Barcelona

Only if Ferrari and redbull retire