2023 car speculation

[Cs98]

I'm not sure they're conflating it. Mercedes believes that if the floor plank is unable to flex, RB and Ferrari will have to raise their floor a bit. No one is specifically ordering them to raise their floor for 2022; it's just something they'd have to do to avoid the plank wearing too much if it can't bend up into the car anymore.

Not by 20mm, that is the conflation. The numbers that have been thrown about with the flexi-floor are around 5mm. The other poster was suggesting the flexi-floor TD would mean a 20mm floor raise, which is nonsense.

[Cs98]

A compromise has been reached after the FIA has rejected to back Mercedes requests in full. The floor edges + diffuser throat will be raised 15mm and not 25mm.

From what I've read there will not be an alteration to the diffuser throat. They scrapped that and compromised on the floor edge.

[saviour stivala]

A compromise has been reached after the FIA has rejected to back Mercedes requests in full. The floor edges + diffuser throat will be raised 15mm and not 25mm.

From what I've read there will not be an alteration to the diffuser throat. They scrapped that and compromised on the floor edge.

You might be right about the diffuser throat, I will have to check that again.

[PlatinumZealot]

I'm not sure they're conflating it. Mercedes believes that if the floor plank is unable to flex, RB and Ferrari will have to raise their floor a bit. No one is specifically ordering them to raise their floor for 2022; it's just something they'd have to do to avoid the plank wearing too much if it can't bend up into the car anymore.

Not by 20mm, that is the conflation. The numbers that have been thrown about with the flexi-floor are around 5mm. The other poster was suggesting the flexi-floor TD would mean a 20mm floor raise, which is nonsense.

Throwing around numbers? So why place so much importance between 20mm and 5mm??

I didn't even know you talking about the figure itself.
My point still stands on the difference in features of the floors.

[carisi2k]

TD039 is about the plank and not the floor and isn't anything to do with floor flexing. It is about allowing the plank to deform further then allowed for the car to sit lower at the rear and increase straight line speed. For this trick you need to look at which cars sit low to the ground and has a 3 part plank. The W13 has both of these features on it and so I'm expecting Mercedes and Ferrari to lose time in Belguim and not Red Bull whose issues with this TD seem to be financial as it requires modifications even if you aren't cheating.

As for floor flexing the W13's floor is the worst culprit for this. The underfloor and sidepod design means that they don't have the support mechanisms to prevent there very thin floor from flexing. This is why they have been having issues in the corners where the car will just lose downforce like in Austria or the jumping in the corners at Baku which were exacerbated by the porpoising inherent in the W13 design.

The skate has nothing at all to do with a flexi floor and is a device to help stop the issue of the floor stalling. What Ferrari and Mercedes have on the edge of their floors are what I call fingers (think about what an ice skater does in a race with there hands in the corners) rather then skate's and that is to control the stability of the flexing floor.

I will say that the FIA have been focussing so much on what Mercedes have been complaining about like porpoising and competitors supposed cheats that they turn a blind eye to the mischief that Mercedes have been getting up to on the W13 like the flexi front wings. The new front wing regulations were supposed to ban this but Mercedes have been flexing there front wings all year. Because the FIA haven't said anything about this the other teams have all now done the same flexing front wing that Mercedes have.

[ringo]

Why do you assume Mercedes are driving these changes?
Why would they do this if they are also affected?
I think Mercedes involvment is overstated.

By the way Russel came out and deffended the sidepod concept. He said it's worth sticking to this year and changing concept could in fact make the car slower.
The team are expected however to have some hybrid concept between zero pods on the sloped pods and bath tub pods i think.
Squaring off the zero pods and havng a smooth ramp to the rear, with floor struts underneath would be a logical move.
Next would be trick suspension and a new nose to be the fastest.

[zibby43]

TD039 is about the plank and not the floor and isn't anything to do with floor flexing. It is about allowing the plank to deform further then allowed for the car to sit lower at the rear and increase straight line speed. For this trick you need to look at which cars sit low to the ground and has a 3 part plank. The W13 has both of these features on it and so I'm expecting Mercedes and Ferrari to lose time in Belguim and not Red Bull whose issues with this TD seem to be financial as it requires modifications even if you aren't cheating.

As for floor flexing the W13's floor is the worst culprit for this. The underfloor and sidepod design means that they don't have the support mechanisms to prevent there very thin floor from flexing. This is why they have been having issues in the corners where the car will just lose downforce like in Austria or the jumping in the corners at Baku which were exacerbated by the porpoising inherent in the W13 design.

The skate has nothing at all to do with a flexi floor and is a device to help stop the issue of the floor stalling. What Ferrari and Mercedes have on the edge of their floors are what I call fingers (think about what an ice skater does in a race with there hands in the corners) rather then skate's and that is to control the stability of the flexing floor.

I will say that the FIA have been focussing so much on what Mercedes have been complaining about like porpoising and competitors supposed cheats that they turn a blind eye to the mischief that Mercedes have been getting up to on the W13 like the flexi front wings. The new front wing regulations were supposed to ban this but Mercedes have been flexing there front wings all year. Because the FIA haven't said anything about this the other teams have all now done the same flexing front wing that Mercedes have.

Respectfully, a lot of what you're saying is simply factually incorrect. Mercedes have publicly stated that they were surprised to see the "trick" plank, as it was a design feature that they never considered because they thought it was clearly against the rules.

Setting that aside, it would make no logical sense for Mercedes to overtly support (they're not alone, by the way) a measure that would hurt their performance.

Every team on the grid can see the performance of Mercedes' front wing. I haven't heard a peep of protest.

Looking forward to Spa.

[saviour stivala]

The facts are that FIA did not bow to all Mercedes wanted, and a compromise has been reached so that the floor edge will be raised 15mm and not 25mm from next race.

[Cocles]

The flexible front wing has been brought and discussed in depth on here before. If I remember correctly, the conversation died out when it was shown that other teams had front wings doing this as well. It wasn't a Mercedes thing.

[Cs98]

I'm not sure they're conflating it. Mercedes believes that if the floor plank is unable to flex, RB and Ferrari will have to raise their floor a bit. No one is specifically ordering them to raise their floor for 2022; it's just something they'd have to do to avoid the plank wearing too much if it can't bend up into the car anymore.

Not by 20mm, that is the conflation. The numbers that have been thrown about with the flexi-floor are around 5mm. The other poster was suggesting the flexi-floor TD would mean a 20mm floor raise, which is nonsense.

Throwing around numbers? So why place so much importance between 20mm and 5mm??

I didn't even know you talking about the figure itself.
My point still stands on the difference in features of the floors.

The difference between 5 and 20 is rather large, don’t you think? 5mm is Merc speculation IIRC, not my opinion.

Point is the TD is one thing and the rule change for 2023 another. If you’re expecting cars to come out at Spa 20mm higher in ride height you are sorely mistaken. You won’t see the difference if there even is one.

[Mchamilton]

There's no direct correlation between between downforce level and tyre wear is there so I don't see what your point is?

There absolutely is.

Nope.

[OO7]

The facts are that FIA did not bow to all Mercedes wanted, and a compromise has been reached so that the floor edge will be raised 15mm and not 25mm from next race.

If the raised floor edges rule is introduced, it will be for 2023, not this season.

[vorticism]

I wager:

RB develops a Merc-type side wing and integrates it with their current ethos.

All other teams move toward the RB wide sloping sidepod, even Ferrari. It provides the best compromise between aero and structure.

Ice skates disappear due to raised floor edge height. Unless teams allow the cars to roll more.

[Just_a_fan]

Interesting though ref. the side wing. But isn't that a device intended to create a strong downwash effect? Where would that fit in to Red Bull's aero scheme as shown, currently, on the RB18?

I would bet the ice skates will remain (unless specifically outlawed) as they will still be powerful flow conditioners even under the raised floor. Indeed, they might be even more useful with a higher floor.

[vorticism]

I recall when RB did their version of Ferrari sidepods with the RB15. Inlet above the crash structures. Even had their own version of what we now call a side wing. So I figure, they may do it again if the rules permit much freedom of shape. If it essentially has to look like the W13 version to meet the regs, maybe its a development dead end and we won't see it again.