2025/2026 Hybrid Powerunit speculation

[vorticism]

If they could sort it out it might be compelling. Hydrocarbon fuel energy density + electric motor p:w ratio

[mzso]

Fuel cell tech, regardless of type, is entirely unsuitable for F1. And would be quite dangerous in an accident.

Thoroughly unfounded. You didn't even bother to pretend to have an argument.

[djos]

Fuel cell tech, regardless of type, is entirely unsuitable for F1. And would be quite dangerous in an accident.

Thoroughly unfounded. You didn't even bother to pretend to have an argument.

By unsuitable I mean that to get any reasonable Power out of them, they would be impractical due to size and weight.

By dangerous, I merely mean that (assuming hydrogen fuel) that there is a much wider range of flammability in air. Iirc it was between 4-70% Is ignitable. So leaks after an accident would be a real concern, especially considering hydrogen is colourless and odourless.

I don’t know enough about other fuels to comment on those.

The reality is that fuel cell tech is not suitable for normal size vehicles or Motorsport applications. It’s real talent is in Large vehicles like trains, trucks and ships where they have the space to put lots of storage and rapid refueling is needed.

[.poz]

Are we going to see a "GP2 engine" F1 ?

73 kg/h of fuel
4.8 bar turbo
16:1 compression ratio

How are they going to charge the battery ? Energy harvesting under braking is now unlimited but AFAIK on some tracks will be impossible to charge the battery enough. Are we going to see FE style tracks ?

[Juzh]

These regulations look like they'll produce power units very similar in performance and philosophy to the old LMP1 regulations. I imagine the way the cars are driven will look more LMP than F1 as well.

Wonderful, I just can't wait for 300m of lift & coast on every straight and top speeds in GP2 range or less whenever electrical charge is deemed not needed or depleted.

[djos]

These regulations look like they'll produce power units very similar in performance and philosophy to the old LMP1 regulations. I imagine the way the cars are driven will look more LMP than F1 as well.

Wonderful, I just can't wait for 300m of lift & coast on every straight and top speeds in GP2 range or less whenever electrical charge is deemed not needed or depleted.

I know right, it’s almost as if they want us to stop watching!

[Zynerji]

In the words of Caroll Smith:

"Other sports beckon."

[wuzak]

Are we going to see a "GP2 engine" F1 ?

73 kg/h of fuel
4.8 bar turbo
16:1 compression ratio

How are they going to charge the battery ? Energy harvesting under braking is now unlimited but AFAIK on some tracks will be impossible to charge the battery enough. Are we going to see FE style tracks ?

Currently the braking energy recovery is set at 120kW and a maximum of 2MJ per lap.

The 2MJ is currently very difficult to achieve at most tracks using braking recovery alone.

[wuzak]

These regulations look like they'll produce power units very similar in performance and philosophy to the old LMP1 regulations. I imagine the way the cars are driven will look more LMP than F1 as well.

Wonderful, I just can't wait for 300m of lift & coast on every straight and top speeds in GP2 range or less whenever electrical charge is deemed not needed or depleted.

Imagine the straight at Baku.

Especially if they have to use the ERS to overcome turbo-lag.

[vorticism]

Turbocompounding, mechanical or electrical, remains a rarity. Seen in some World War aircraft, a helicopter, F1 cars, and... nowhere else? Gains:cost ratio must be a factor, as well OEMs currently gearing toward overall lower build cost powertrains such as BEV (less incentive to tweak the last 10% of BTE on ICEs). By switching to MGUK only, F1 get to keep their fuel capacity and flow rate claims, and may start using an mpg or km/l delta to previous seasons as their marketing metrics, while dropping the % thermal efficiency claim. Thermal efficiency may fall but so will fuel consumption. I assume FIA/FOM(?) have done their homework and this balance of 60/40 ICE/EV power represents the current minimum feasible (for F1 industry) ICE size and maximum feasible ES size to maintain familiar laptimes.

[Big Tea]

These regulations look like they'll produce power units very similar in performance and philosophy to the old LMP1 regulations. I imagine the way the cars are driven will look more LMP than F1 as well.

Wonderful, I just can't wait for 300m of lift & coast on every straight and top speeds in GP2 range or less whenever electrical charge is deemed not needed or depleted.

But if all the cars have similar(ish) performance it will not be very noticeable. If you watch races from when they only had 700 HP it is just as interesting because it is comparative car v car. The only difference probably wil be on the stopwatch which is not really relevant, except against each other

[DutchPanther]

Can someone please tell me if the FIA have declared the increase in ERS storage capacity with the F1 26 rules?

[sticktion]

Symonds said the 2026 fuel energy density and octane level will be similar to today

I've been pretty shocked that got walked back, as he'd previously confirmed many times the new fuel's higher energy density.

Switching from KG/hr to MJ/hr was clearly intended to create fuel supplier competition on energy density, with the reward being lower fuel weight — and he's explicitly confirmed this. Yet in the same interview he says density will get capped at 43-44MJ, seemingly negating that competition. ⁠
But he also mentions it'll be ~20% ethanol, as it's cheap and they want road relevancy, not "rocket fuel". A 20% ethanol blend capped at 43.5MJ means the the synth gas itself could theoretically reach ~48MJ, so it technically is higher density. OK, so the carrot driving competition remains weight reduction.

But while diluting the fuel makes perfect sense for road cars ...why use that blend in F1 instead of the straight synth gas? The ethanol is effectively just ballast. With all the brow-furrowing over lightening the '26 cars, you'd think it'd be a no-brainer.

And it's not like the average joe cares whether it's strictly identical fuel. You could easily explain it away in a single PR sentence: "F1's new fuel can be blended with regular ethanol to work directly in road cars, so the more potent the F1 version gets the cheaper it is at the pump."

So: perhaps they're struggling to hit sustainability targets with the synth gas and need ethanol's net positive energy balance to patch it up, using road relevance as their cover story.


All this has me concerned about the state of active aero, something Symonds had previously sworn up and down is happening. It's obvious the new PU regs were designed around AA, to the extent they're simply broken without it.
So where's the announcement? Hell, even a passing mention in the PR video would do. The regs were originally supposed to be brought to vote at the start of June, yet even now there hasn't been a peep from anyone about active aero since the end of April.

[Juzh]

These regulations look like they'll produce power units very similar in performance and philosophy to the old LMP1 regulations. I imagine the way the cars are driven will look more LMP than F1 as well.

Wonderful, I just can't wait for 300m of lift & coast on every straight and top speeds in GP2 range or less whenever electrical charge is deemed not needed or depleted.

But if all the cars have similar(ish) performance it will not be very noticeable. If you watch races from when they only had 700 HP it is just as interesting because it is comparative car v car. The only difference probably wil be on the stopwatch which is not really relevant, except against each other

There's a limit when it becomes obscene. F1 cars with their high drag will really become snail slow with proposed new fuel flow limit slashed by one third. They're not particularly fast even as they are now, around 310 kmh is maximum they can achieve in race trim when using ERS assist, and only around 280 km/h when ERS is deemed not needed. Check out this video:

Another thing to consider is it'll probably be impossible to defend a position for long. If you over a few laps save just a bit more energy by using DRS you will then have so much more power available a simple fly-by is guaranteed.

[Juzh]

These regulations look like they'll produce power units very similar in performance and philosophy to the old LMP1 regulations. I imagine the way the cars are driven will look more LMP than F1 as well.

Wonderful, I just can't wait for 300m of lift & coast on every straight and top speeds in GP2 range or less whenever electrical charge is deemed not needed or depleted.

Imagine the straight at Baku.

Yeah that one will be fun to watch.