A post EV era

[Just_a_fan]

A needed perspective

One perspective.

Interesting to note that in 1912 people were talking about CO2 and climate change. CC isn't a modern thing.

[Tommy Cookers]

people were talking about man-made climate cooling
particularly when Greenland ice cores then cores globally showed that sudden 'ice ages' had often been triggered

the climate 'experts' wrote papers on this
it was featured in our school's new (1960s) geography books

yes maybe 1% of the 'experts' were warmists

archaeologists know now and knew then that substantial natural climate change is frequent

almost 50 years ago .....
environmentalism and conservationism and geopolitics spawned today's greenism (under the an 'energy crisis' banner)
and 'global cooling' was a prime topic

[johnny comelately]

people were talking about man-made climate cooling
particularly when Greenland ice cores then cores globally showed that sudden 'ice ages' had often been triggered

the climate 'experts' wrote papers on this
it was featured in our school's new (1960s) geography books

yes maybe 1% of the 'experts' were warmists

archaeologists know now and knew then that substantial natural climate change is frequent


almost 50 years ago .....
environmentalism and conservationism and geopolitics spawned today's greenism (under the an 'energy crisis' banner)
'global cooling' was a prime topic

True, and that is an example of facts having a half life.
How old are you?
But also we get a bit better at ascertaining methods and they have somewhat recognised/ quantified the anthropological effect.
The nice lady put some perspective on this from a cause point of view.

[DChemTech]

people were talking about man-made climate cooling
particularly when Greenland ice cores then cores globally showed that sudden 'ice ages' had often been triggered

the climate 'experts' wrote papers on this
it was featured in our school's new (1960s) geography books

yes maybe 1% of the 'experts' were warmists

archaeologists know now and knew then that substantial natural climate change is frequent

almost 50 years ago .....
environmentalism and conservationism and geopolitics spawned today's greenism (under the an 'energy crisis' banner)
and 'global cooling' was a prime topic

Ehm, yes, and there were good reasons for that back then. At that point the cooling effect of aerosols was more noticable than the warming effect of CO2 - something that has changed over the years. You know, sometimes knowledge advances and we figure out that what we thought was likely then was actually never an imminent danger. That doesn't mean the same applies to other theories - that people were wrong on global cooling says nothing about the reality of global warming. It's like saying something like "in the past, people thought the sun revolved around the earth. maybe 1% of the 'experts' were 'sun centralists'." (and implying that, hence, we should not take sun-centralism too serious).

By the way, your figures are a huge misrepresentation. The global cooling thing was an hypothesis of a handful of scientists, got picked up by the press, and was hence gaining a lot of popular attention for some time. In scientific literature, warming was still more predominant than cooling - it was certainly not the case 1% of 'experts' were 'warmists'.

[Greg Locock]

As it turns out the EU is proposing a sort of carbon based import duty which would work roughly as I proposed above, except of course being the EU it will not be transparent.

[johnny comelately]

For example, re biochemical engineering:
Bridgestone Americas (Bridgestone) has developed an all-new race tire with a sidewall made with natural rubber derived from the guayule desert shrub
https://www.greencarcongress.com/2022/0 ... ayule.html

Stora Enso and Northvolt partner to develop anode material from wood
27 July 2022
https://www.greencarcongress.com/2022/0 ... aenso.html

Further to the subject of synthesising materials rather than mining etc
this video explains synthetic biology nicely.
My original point was non organic materials to reduce the need for traditional material production that has been a sticking point.
Couple this with strategic placement to reduce shipping miles and we might be a quarter way there to solving the problem of manufacturing pollution.


https://www.ginkgobioworks.com/about/

[vorticism]

As it turns out the EU is proposing a sort of carbon based import duty which would work roughly as I proposed above, except of course being the EU it will not be transparent.

Other problems are that the carbon cost estimate of a given finished good is inaccurate due to supply chain variables, and the synthesized cost can only be applied as an arbitrary tax figure, wherein the collected funds go to government and not to the manufacturers of the goods who will end up playing shell games with the tax codes i.e. it's simply another revenue grab by our bloated bureaus who then get to stamp a product with their special stamp which constituents will be convinced to believe has an intrinsic value correlated to some transcendent nigh non-temporal goal.

Compare to other regulatory devices. Exhaust pipe emissions. A direct measurement it taken of the actual end product and its performance is graded, to good effect, and we've ended up with ICE exhaust components being breathable without harm (mostly CO2 and water vapor) even when multiplied across legions of vehicles confined to a small landmass. Yet now, certain power brokers say our backyards still aren't clean enough because the cumulative mass of other nation's backyards are a mess.

[hollus]

The most active mods have been on holidays and this happened.
Talk about personal motives, left and right views, libertarianism, economics of taxes, distribution of guilt and blame and revenge over continents and eras...
A good reminder of why politics are off limits in the forum.
Hopefully no mortal enemies have been created to carry nastiness into the rest of the forum, but let's not increase the chances of that any further. nothing good would come out of this and the entrenched positions have been shown as entrenched enough, as usual with politics.
Thread closed.