2025/2026 Hybrid Powerunit speculation

[henry]

''Unlimited amount of energy transferred to the ES''. But what is the ES maximum SOC allowed. So goes to the unlimited to the K as regards to its allowed output per lap.

9 MJ recovery allowed.
Unlimited energy deployment.
Storage is maximum 4MJ (maximum SOC - minimum SOC)

Suppose they can recover that much (they can't obviously, but lets go with it), why so much more recovery than deployment (9 vs 4 MJ)

It’s unlimited deployment. So potentially 13MJ, 4 from SOC on previous lap and 9 from recovery during the lap.

[NL_Fer]

They recover 1-2mj from braking with current setup. I doubt it will be 6mj with 350kw recovery, more like 3mj

[Tommy Cookers]

They recover 1-2mj from braking with current setup. I doubt it will be 6mj with 350kw recovery, more like 3mj

afaik
the present setup stops regenerative braking just before there's insufficient tyre grip for the 120 kW regen torque
after some downshifts (which maintain voltage but increase regen demand torque at tyre)

but there's a fair bit of regen energy available after there's insufficient grip for regen at the new normal 350 kW rate
as demanded 'back' torque (current generated) can be lowered as necessary when tyre grip reduces with DF
though downshifts will tend to increase torque demand at tyre
(& in any gear as rpm varies demanded 'back' torque is variable (already doing it ?) ie to maintain generation at 350 kW)

[Juzh]

9 MJ recovery allowed.
Unlimited energy deployment.
Storage is maximum 4MJ (maximum SOC - minimum SOC)

Suppose they can recover that much (they can't obviously, but lets go with it), why so much more recovery than deployment (9 vs 4 MJ)

It’s unlimited deployment. So potentially 13MJ, 4 from SOC on previous lap and 9 from recovery during the lap.

Ah, I get it now. In the old graphic unlimited flow was clearly marked with "unlimited", but now it's just assumed unlimited unless specifically capped. 9 MJ still seems excessive.

[djos]

I’ve seen a few commentators mentioning turbo lag making a return.

I’d have thought that the clever engineers in F1 would use the MGU-K to compensate for the lag.

Or is this wishful thinking on my part?

[wuzak]

I’ve seen a few commentators mentioning turbo lag making a return.

I’d have thought that the clever engineers in F1 would use the MGU-K to compensate for the lag.

Or is this wishful thinking on my part?

That is what I am thinking.

The MGUK will push the car out of the corners, like the old LMP1s.

[djos]

I’ve seen a few commentators mentioning turbo lag making a return.

I’d have thought that the clever engineers in F1 would use the MGU-K to compensate for the lag.

Or is this wishful thinking on my part?

That is what I am thinking.

The MGUK will push the car out of the corners, like the old LMP1s.

Ah good, I’m glad I’m not the only one who thought this was really obvious.

[Tommy Cookers]

I was thinking that the mapping rules will be interesting - 'rather like F E's mapping rules'

does F E have mapping rules ?
or is the F E car just a 4-wheeled driver aid ?

[vorticism]

I still have trouble reconciling 1600cc for the new fuel flow rules

It is odd.
Reduce fuel flow by 30-40%, but maintain capacity and rpm requirements, including not having max flow until 10,500rpm.
And the "simplified" PU saves maybe 4 or 5kg compared to a current PU.

Seems to be about cost savings. They want an engine that will run reliably for more races, so they're detuning the current ICE formula. 400 hp/l from 550 hp/l. This should make the engines lighter but may not due to rules on component sizes. Maintaining 10.5k seems to be about maintaining a familiar variable as it relates to minimizing gearbox development, valvetrain, pump rates, etc.

[Holm86]

This isn't very technical, but I found it interesting. I fear the 26 cars will be pretty slow overall

[wuzak]

This isn't very technical, but I found it interesting. I fear the 26 cars will be pretty slow overall

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57-X6upKif4

Yes, dead slow.

Maximum power at the mid to end of the straights will be 400kW (ie no MGUK assistance), and they will likely lift and coast to get their recharge for a significant portion at the end of the straight.

[Cold Fussion]

This isn't very technical, but I found it interesting. I fear the 26 cars will be pretty slow overall

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57-X6upKif4

Yes, dead slow.

Maximum power at the mid to end of the straights will be 400kW (ie no MGUK assistance), and they will likely lift and coast to get their recharge for a significant portion at the end of the straight.

Are they planning significant aerodynamic rule changes for 2026 as well? With the MGU-K power dropping from 300 km/h onward, it would seem to me the envisioned scenario would be full power boosting up to 300 km/h, and then cruising the straight at 300 km/h with the 400KW ICE.

[wuzak]

This isn't very technical, but I found it interesting. I fear the 26 cars will be pretty slow overall

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57-X6upKif4

Yes, dead slow.

Maximum power at the mid to end of the straights will be 400kW (ie no MGUK assistance), and they will likely lift and coast to get their recharge for a significant portion at the end of the straight.

Are they planning significant aerodynamic rule changes for 2026 as well? With the MGU-K power dropping from 300 km/h onward, it would seem to me the envisioned scenario would be full power boosting up to 300 km/h, and then cruising the straight at 300 km/h with the 400KW ICE.

Yes, they are. And possibly includes active aero.

They will need it.

[Zynerji]

With the power decrease in the ICE, we may see centerline cooling and the deletion of side pods altogether. That would shed drag, and centralize the weight on the long axis.

They look more feisty in the corners, and mguk+turbo lag is going to feel like a 2 stroke hitting its power band twice on corner exit. Maybe that gets us some more edge-of-the-seat racing?

Now bring back 2005 tyre regs, and we can have no-stop, nose to tail racing from lights to flag with squirrely cars.

[wuzak]

They look more feisty in the corners, and mguk+turbo lag is going to feel like a 2 stroke hitting its power band twice on corner exit. Maybe that gets us some more edge-of-the-seat racing?

I think that the MGUK will be used as anti-lag, so the corner exits will still be quite smooth.

If they wanted the cars to be more knife edge on corner exits they would have left fuel flow as it is, delete the MGUH and MGUK.

The headline power would be less - about 600kW, rather than 750kW, but at least 50kg would be saved from the car and turbo lag would actually be a thing.