2010 regulation row on £40m budget cap

[nae]

max will call the teams bluff

and then we will wait for a court case

and then F1 will have its final nail hammered home

[jddh1]

I think Ferrari has a strong chance of winning. All teams have the right to veto the rule changes. That is not being respected at the moment so now we have to wait for a jury/judge ruling.

[nae]

I think Ferrari has a strong chance of winning. All teams have the right to veto the rule changes. That is not being respected at the moment so now we have to wait for a jury/judge ruling.

i hadnt read the injunction thing there when i posted above

that makes it possible to be sorted before the 29th

waits with baited breath

[gridwalker]

I just saw an interview with Max Mosley on BBC News 24, where he said that he can't give any ground to Ferrari, otherwishe they will start to dictate all of the rules.

He was clearly trying his hardest to appear professional and presidential ... was it wrong that my brain appended "and we don't negotiate with terrorists" to the end of his statement?

[timbo]

I just saw an interview with Max Mosley on BBC News 24, where he said that he can't give any ground to Ferrari, otherwishe they will start to dictate all of the rules.

Yeah, it's kinda fun that even Mosley won't recognize that it's not only Ferrari's business. That's his weakness.

[gridwalker]

His lack of commentary regarding any of the other teams that are threatening to pull out was really quite telling : it's almost as if this standoff is only about Max & Ferrari ... nobody else seems to matter.

[jddh1]

I've read on the Italian newspapers that Luca Di Monty has repeatedly said that he is for cutting costs and such, even perhaps a budget cap can work. What he does not like is the emergency that these rules are being forcefully applied by Mad Max. Di Monty has often said that a slow decrease in budgets is fine with him, over a 3 yr period, but going from 350-400 mill to 70 mill USD in less than a year is hard for Ferrari (and surely other teams).
It's a very dramatic change in business terms, reducing your operation 80%, which it took 60 years to slowly build up. Planning for future racing categories takes at least a year. And Ferrari wants a smooth transition of some of its brain power to other, newly created sections of the racing factory.

Let's take for example the case with the National Hockey League here in North America. A few years back the owners and league wanted to introduce the salary cap. (Notice here, not an operational cap, but a salary cap. Max's idea is an operational cap, which is a little different, but bear with me.) The players, at the time did not want a cap, so the lock out happened. Not playing for a year lowered NHL's profile in the States enormously. TV deals had to be broken off. These deals take years to negotiate.

When they finally reached the agreement, the cap was not an 80% decrease for the top spending teams (NY Rangers, Detroit, Colorado, Montreal, etc.) I think, for NYR, they went from 70 million to 50 million (don't remember exact numbers.) But also, some teams that did not spend had to now spend up to the cap floor. So a compromise was reached.

My point is this: why can this not happen in F1. Let's say Williams and FiF1 are spending closer to $70 mill. Toyota and Ferrari let's say about 400 mill. If we average that out in a extremely rough and generously low way, we say the upper cap is 250 mill for 2010 and the lower cap is 100 mill. These values would be adjusted for 2011 of course to have a narrower spending gap, say 120 mill to 200mill, and for 2012, the final 150-180 mill lower-upper cap.

Now, some of you may say why should smaller teams increase their operation budgets to meet the lower cap? More importantly, HOW will they be able to do so?
Well, don't fret, dear friends. I have an answer for that. It's a very short one: Bernie!

Bernie needs to give teams a larger share of what they earn from the racing. It must happen. It's long overdue if you ask me. If Williams, for example, has more income from The Bernie, do you think they won't spend it? Do you think they won't hire a few more workers to streamline their process and development? Sure they will is what you should answer.

But why should The Bernie and CVC cut into their profits from F1? Well, because if they act like a spoiled child with his toys and don't share, they'll go on to be without any friends, in this case no teams with the prestige we are accustomed to. Are you gonna tell me a GP2-like series will earn them billions of USD a year? No! If they share, they remain to earn more than by ousting Ferrari, Red Bull, Toyota, McLaren, BMW and the lot.

Besides, when have you heard of a promoter getting more than 60% of the earnings from an event? Go to any club and ask what the promoters' cut is for concerts and shows. You'd be surprised.

Ok, this is the end of my rant. Please, feel free to comment, but if you disagree with my main idea, I think you are either stupid or related to Max, Bernie and CVC.

[Callum]

If Ferrari were to leave F1 for another serise, where would you like to see them go to?

Personally i'd love another big manufacturer in the Le Mans serise...

Ferrari, Audi, Peugot, Porsche maybe more would come?

[gridwalker]

I'd like them to throw their weight behind A1GP : I like the idea of a world cup, but it doesn't have the exposure necessary to attract the best talent available.

[roost89]

If Ferrari were to leave F1 for another serise, where would you like to see them go to?

Personally i'd love another big manufacturer in the Le Mans serise...

Ferrari, Audi, Peugot, Porsche maybe more would come?

I'd vote for Le Mans too.

[Conceptual]

I've read on the Italian newspapers that Luca Di Monty has repeatedly said that he is for cutting costs and such, even perhaps a budget cap can work. What he does not like is the emergency that these rules are being forcefully applied by Mad Max. Di Monty has often said that a slow decrease in budgets is fine with him, over a 3 yr period, but going from 350-400 mill to 70 mill USD in less than a year is hard for Ferrari (and surely other teams).
It's a very dramatic change in business terms, reducing your operation 80%, which it took 60 years to slowly build up. Planning for future racing categories takes at least a year. And Ferrari wants a smooth transition of some of its brain power to other, newly created sections of the racing factory.

Let's take for example the case with the National Hockey League here in North America. A few years back the owners and league wanted to introduce the salary cap. (Notice here, not an operational cap, but a salary cap. Max's idea is an operational cap, which is a little different, but bear with me.) The players, at the time did not want a cap, so the lock out happened. Not playing for a year lowered NHL's profile in the States enormously. TV deals had to be broken off. These deals take years to negotiate.

When they finally reached the agreement, the cap was not an 80% decrease for the top spending teams (NY Rangers, Detroit, Colorado, Montreal, etc.) I think, for NYR, they went from 70 million to 50 million (don't remember exact numbers.) But also, some teams that did not spend had to now spend up to the cap floor. So a compromise was reached.

My point is this: why can this not happen in F1. Let's say Williams and FiF1 are spending closer to $70 mill. Toyota and Ferrari let's say about 400 mill. If we average that out in a extremely rough and generously low way, we say the upper cap is 250 mill for 2010 and the lower cap is 100 mill. These values would be adjusted for 2011 of course to have a narrower spending gap, say 120 mill to 200mill, and for 2012, the final 150-180 mill lower-upper cap.

Now, some of you may say why should smaller teams increase their operation budgets to meet the lower cap? More importantly, HOW will they be able to do so?
Well, don't fret, dear friends. I have an answer for that. It's a very short one: Bernie!

Bernie needs to give teams a larger share of what they earn from the racing. It must happen. It's long overdue if you ask me. If Williams, for example, has more income from The Bernie, do you think they won't spend it? Do you think they won't hire a few more workers to streamline their process and development? Sure they will is what you should answer.

But why should The Bernie and CVC cut into their profits from F1? Well, because if they act like a spoiled child with his toys and don't share, they'll go on to be without any friends, in this case no teams with the prestige we are accustomed to. Are you gonna tell me a GP2-like series will earn them billions of USD a year? No! If they share, they remain to earn more than by ousting Ferrari, Red Bull, Toyota, McLaren, BMW and the lot.

Besides, when have you heard of a promoter getting more than 60% of the earnings from an event? Go to any club and ask what the promoters' cut is for concerts and shows. You'd be surprised.

Ok, this is the end of my rant. Please, feel free to comment, but if you disagree with my main idea, I think you are either stupid or related to Max, Bernie and CVC.

Or we are free thinking individuals that have different views.

Too bad that the option that you may be wrong is not included, because it was a well written post before I got to that part...

[Callum]

Do you think Kimi or Massa would like Le Mans? I get the feeling Kimi might actually want to race there.

[gcdugas]

No concession from Max as I predicted . Ferrari are in the French civil courts. They are serious. 14 days to go. The teams will not sign and Bernie will be without a series. It remains to be seen what alternative they will seek. Just quit and walk away... attractive to Renault who are getting beat by their customer team. A rival series? I would say the A1GP rumor may have some credibility to it because....

If the manufacturers were going to set up a FOTA series from scratch I would think we would have heard some rumblings about track owners being approached, maybe some insurance underwriters being approached, media and TV contracts being approached etc. A1GP while not an ideal package is nonetheless a unitized package that is mostly ready to go. And I can't see the teams making all these "quit F1" threats without an alternative in mind. So my conclusion is a deductive one, not one based upon any facts leaked.

Max is a N@z! socialist tyrant pig who doesn't believe in gravity... or free market supply and demand pricing which is as much of a law as gravity is. No team is going to spend a quadrillion Euros for their F1 budget. Their budgets are set by their respective boards who have to assess the PR value of F1 vs the ROI. These determinations are made in the light of economic reality by those whose money is being spent. You cannot police a budget cap. Ferrari could just test their "LMP" cars at Mugello which "just happens" to have the same transmission and suspension as their F1 car and there isn't a thing anyone could say about it. The FOTA's proposal recognizes this reailty. Max want to poke his nose in everyone's books.... ain't gunna happen. Two tiered... don't make me laugh. Even Max knows this is absurd but he is using it as a negotiating tool to conform the teams to his will. Also ain't gunna happen. Max has overplayed his hand and painted himself into a corner. The teams aren't going to cave or be divided. Without the Concorde Agreement and its "unanimity clause", Max and Bernie can't manipulate the outcome unilaterally.

And please note that the budget cap is by far a secondary issue. The teams are sick of Max's unilateral decrees and they will no longer stand for it. It is over for the "old ways". The teams are going to assert themselves in a unified manner and all the "liargate" "spygate" "diffusergate" dramas are secondary to the unity and agenda of the FOTA. I might add, it is about time.

[jddh1]

Ok, this is the end of my rant. Please, feel free to comment, but if you disagree with my main idea, I think you are either stupid or related to Max, Bernie and CVC.

Or we are free thinking individuals that have different views.

Too bad that the option that you may be wrong is not included, because it was a well written post before I got to that part...

LOL. Well, I had to stir up the pot with that because I knew my idea is great and sensible. LOL. But I knew that last comment was what people were gonna complain about. Inserted it there completely intentionally. I'm still laughing about the fact that I predicted it.

anyway, jokes aside, I think it's a pretty solid argument I'm sharing out here. If any of you can modify it to make it better great.

[Jersey Tom]

NASCAR.