2022 Belgian Grand Prix - Spa-Francorchamps - Aug 26 - 28

[PlatinumZealot]

Daniel Ricciardo had a strange race....

[RZS10]

The white line is the track limit, so a car width should be measured from the point where the outside edge of the tyre is on the outside edge of the white line.

So roughly this:



Certainly not this:



So strictly speaking he broke Appendix L Chapter IV 2.b)

Any driver moving back towards the racing line, having earlier defended his position off-line, should leave at least one car width between his own car and the edge of the track on the approach to the corner.
However, manoeuvres liable to hinder other drivers, such as deliberate crowding of a car beyond the edge of the track or any other abnormal change of direction, are strictly prohibited. Any driver who appears guilty of any of the above offences will be reported to the Stewards.

Leclerc obviously yielded but one argument for Perez i can see is that Leclerc was not alongside anymore once the gap wasn't big enough (because he yielded, ofc) but Perez did not fall foul of the "crowding" part of that rule.

I personally not sure whether something like this should necessarily be a penalty - but given that they're (supposedly) stricter with rule enforcement this year and remind everyone about the white lines defining the track in the notes it's at the very least fair if people are upset about how it was handled i'd say.

As a sidenote: interesting how much certain perspectives tend to trick the eye, eh? It would appear that Leclerc is actually side by side when he just about has enough of the FW next to Perez wheels to still have a claim to that space, this was the furthest he got before braking:

[Just_a_fan]

Penalty for Perez there. Didn't leave a car's width when he came back on line. But nothing will happen, of course.

I agree. And I don't think it's a team bias thing, just stupidity. I don't understand that. Why leclerc needs to crash for Perez to get the penalty?!

Where do you class a cars width in that scenario though? Do you ignore the kerb and use the white line, or do you allow the width of the kerb to allow a near cars width?

Simple - the white line is the edge of the track as defined in the regs.

[chrisc90]

I agree. And I don't think it's a team bias thing, just stupidity. I don't understand that. Why leclerc needs to crash for Perez to get the penalty?!

Where do you class a cars width in that scenario though? Do you ignore the kerb and use the white line, or do you allow the width of the kerb to allow a near cars width?

Simple - the white line is the edge of the track as defined in the regs.

Is it though when track limits is the full car across the white line. So now it’s inside the white line and beyond the white line providing the tyre does not cross the white line.

On the whole - nothing wrong with it. If Perez got a penalty, they would have also had to penalise Lewis for the move on Alonso.

[RZS10]

How is this in the slightest confusing?

The rule says you have to leave a car width to the edge of the track, whilst staying on track means having at least one tyre in contact with the track which is still defined at the same edge ....

They probably would have penalized Hamilton had he stayed in the race (imho), they even gave a reason why they did not (Document 65) "The Stewards considered that this was a first lap incident with a lot of movement relative to other cars in the first few corners, and thus take no further action."

And this "oh this completely different situation A should also have been penalized if completely different situation B would have been penalized" stuff makes no sense.

[Spoutnik]

Looking at the lap times max was around 1.2-1.3seconds a lap quicker than both sainz and Russell

Only the last stint the gap was around 0.7seconds difference a lap, but imagine max was just cruising around with a bit lift and coast

[organic]

Where do you class a cars width in that scenario though? Do you ignore the kerb and use the white line, or do you allow the width of the kerb to allow a near cars width?

Simple - the white line is the edge of the track as defined in the regs.

Is it though when track limits is the full car across the white line. So now it’s inside the white line and beyond the white line providing the tyre does not cross the white line.

On the whole - nothing wrong with it. If Perez got a penalty, they would have also had to penalise Lewis for the move on Alonso.

... So you're saying "leaving space" is leaving space to have ONE tyre inside the white line? As that's how they define track limits?

What if there's grass/gravel runoffs? Oh it's fine to crowd them into the gravel because the driver that's gone off had enough "room" to have their tyre inside the white line and hence not out of track limits

[Sieper]

The white line is the track limit, so a car width should be measured from the point where the outside edge of the tyre is on the outside edge of the white line.

So roughly this:
https://i.imgur.com/YkDvYga.png
https://i.imgur.com/bs2cY1S.png

Certainly not this:
https://i.imgur.com/As96YuP.png
https://i.imgur.com/X9Mo7FV.png

So strictly speaking he broke Appendix L Chapter IV 2.b)

Any driver moving back towards the racing line, having earlier defended his position off-line, should leave at least one car width between his own car and the edge of the track on the approach to the corner.
However, manoeuvres liable to hinder other drivers, such as deliberate crowding of a car beyond the edge of the track or any other abnormal change of direction, are strictly prohibited. Any driver who appears guilty of any of the above offences will be reported to the Stewards.

Leclerc obviously yielded but one argument for Perez i can see is that Leclerc was not alongside anymore once the gap wasn't big enough (because he yielded, ofc) but Perez did not fall foul of the "crowding" part of that rule.

I personally not sure whether something like this should necessarily be a penalty - but given that they're (supposedly) stricter with rule enforcement this year and remind everyone about the white lines defining the track in the notes it's at the very least fair if people are upset about how it was handled i'd say.

As a sidenote: interesting how much certain perspectives tend to trick the eye, eh? It would appear that Leclerc is actually side by side when he just about has enough of the FW next to Perez wheels to still have a claim to that space, this was the furthest he got before braking:
https://i.imgur.com/bvjIy8K.png

Very good analysis, and on your question, why in some cases then a penalty and in others not. Well, standing a driver has, flow a driver is in, imho those things count in the heads of stewards, maybe even how tough the other driver normally operates in circumstances like this. A bit of difference is certainly there. I don’t see how that can be prevented. Imho he was overly agressive but not to the point of a penalty. Leclerc just, but only just, was not hindered enough for that to be fair.

[ringo]

it must be a car's width inside the track. Perez broke the rules, but given his pace advantage and the fact that Leclerc wouldnt even catch him with a 5 second penalty, they just let it be.

[Just_a_fan]

Where do you class a cars width in that scenario though? Do you ignore the kerb and use the white line, or do you allow the width of the kerb to allow a near cars width?

Simple - the white line is the edge of the track as defined in the regs.

Is it though when track limits is the full car across the white line. So now it’s inside the white line and beyond the white line providing the tyre does not cross the white line.

On the whole - nothing wrong with it. If Perez got a penalty, they would have also had to penalise Lewis for the move on Alonso.

You have to leave a car's width on track - the white line defines where the track exists. Outside of the white line is not "on the track", it's outside the track. So that's slam dunk a breach of the rule.

On the whole, it was piss poor driving and the only reason Perez and Leclerc didn't end up in a race ending contact is because Leclerc got out of the way..

Hamilton got a penalty - he didn't finish lap 1.

[Just_a_fan]

And this "oh this completely different situation A should also have been penalized if completely different situation B would have been penalized" stuff makes no sense.

It makes sense to team fans.

[chrisc90]

Simple - the white line is the edge of the track as defined in the regs.

Is it though when track limits is the full car across the white line. So now it’s inside the white line and beyond the white line providing the tyre does not cross the white line.

On the whole - nothing wrong with it. If Perez got a penalty, they would have also had to penalise Lewis for the move on Alonso.

You have to leave a car's width on track - the white line defines where the track exists. Outside of the white line is not "on the track", it's outside the track. So that's slam dunk a breach of the rule.

On the whole, it was piss poor driving and the only reason Perez and Leclerc didn't end up in a race ending contact is because Leclerc got out of the way..

Hamilton got a penalty - he didn't finish lap 1.

not finishing the lap isn’t the problem though. We have seen penalties carry over to the next race where either a car at fault has retired or the decision was made after the chequered flag. Bottas last year springs to mind when he went bowling at turn 1.


Either way, stewards probably know better than anyone commenting on here

[RZS10]

[snip]
Very good analysis, and on your question, why in some cases then a penalty and in others not. Well, standing a driver has, flow a driver is in, imho those things count in the heads of stewards, maybe even how tough the other driver normally operates in circumstances like this. A bit of difference is certainly there. I don’t see how that can be prevented. Imho he was overly agressive but not to the point of a penalty. Leclerc just, but only just, was not hindered enough for that to be fair.

One thing which might have also been on their minds: this wasn't Leclerc on the same tyre age, it wasn't decisive for position, it was Leclerc on worn tyres against Perez on new ones fresh out of the pits - this only delayed the inevitable by one lap.
Ideally the outcome and the circumstances shouldn't matter but we know how it is.

And to chrisc90: if we always just agreed with the stewards (who, as certain events of the recent past have shown, definitely aren't infallible) there would be no point in having any discussion about anything, no? And from certain scenes this year i know you don't even agree with your own point you made here.

[chrisc90]

So on the 3 incidents that occurred on the track…. What would you have given?

Perez/leclerc
Alonso/ham
The Williams spinning out…

[Just_a_fan]

Is it though when track limits is the full car across the white line. So now it’s inside the white line and beyond the white line providing the tyre does not cross the white line.

On the whole - nothing wrong with it. If Perez got a penalty, they would have also had to penalise Lewis for the move on Alonso.

You have to leave a car's width on track - the white line defines where the track exists. Outside of the white line is not "on the track", it's outside the track. So that's slam dunk a breach of the rule.

On the whole, it was piss poor driving and the only reason Perez and Leclerc didn't end up in a race ending contact is because Leclerc got out of the way..

Hamilton got a penalty - he didn't finish lap 1.

not finishing the lap isn’t the problem though. We have seen penalties carry over to the next race where either a car at fault has retired or the decision was made after the chequered flag. Bottas last year springs to mind when he went bowling at turn 1.


Either way, stewards probably know better than anyone commenting on here

The stewards looked at it and stated that it was a first lap incident. No doubt they noted that Alonso carried on whilst Hamilton DNF'd and decided that the outcome was fair.

Perez didn't have the "first lap incident" excuse - he knew exactly what he was doing and has form. Heck, he's put his own team mate in the wall on more than one occasion in the past.

The sad thing is that Perez didn't need to do that. He had the car to race cleanly and beat Leclerc - as he proved by driving away from him.