2022 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

[Stu]

Coming days would reveal if it's the TD that has set them back or just bad setup work. A car that was working in all conditions, on all compounds and on all circuits, has suddenly become a bad car. Both in Hungary and in Spa which is weird.

I get the feeling they might've had to stiffen up the suspension to avoid the "vertical Gs" measurements, would explain the tyre troubles at least. The cars looked snappy and non compliant in successive turns where the car excelled previously. The car wasn't slammed to the ground previously anyways so I think they weren't affected too much by the new floor stuff but surely they had to change a few things for the bouncing.

This is exactly what I thought when the messages were being relayed to the drivers regarding “avoid the bump in turn…”; it is almost as though they were having to control their pace to stay within the FIA threshold.

[Drift4794]

That's a good observation, Stu.

Interesting comments:

[Spoutnik]

[mendis]

That's a good observation, Stu.

Interesting comments:

This is reassuring. Hope they don't lose pace and in quick time figure out the right setup.

[Shal_Leg16]

Mercedes is up 4 points on Ferrari over the last 10 races. Not sure what other evidence you need that they are on exactly the same level. There are no points awarded for qualifying last time I checked

Oh come on. The Merc has been on the same level points-wise in the last 10 races sure but that's so reductive. That includes races like France, Baku and especially Spain where Charles was winning or in close contention. The car has been consistently quickest or equal quickest until the last 2 races, and Merc have not once had the quickest car on the weekend. Reliability and fewer driver/strategy errors brings Merc into the picture. Ok I agree Ferrari and Mercedes are on the same level actually but the W13 and the f1-75 have not

we clearly saw in Hungary after 2nd stop Leclerc was able to hunt down Russell quite easily so ...i believe Ferrari still has Better car.

The reason Mercs are able to put a fight with Ferrari in recent times is more down to stupid strategy from Ferrari, their uncertainty about whom to pit, what tyre to put on and slow pit times ....all this mess has helped Mercs put a good fight.
Also i would also like add that driver also makes some difference ...in last few races Sainz has been the front runner due to various reasons and has been fighting against the mercs but he doenst look that dominant may be that also helps in making mercs look like on equal footing.

[Andi76]

Mercedes is up 4 points on Ferrari over the last 10 races. Not sure what other evidence you need that they are on exactly the same level. There are no points awarded for qualifying last time I checked

Yes. Mercedes are also able to chase and pass a ferrari since Barcelona. Cars on different levels aren't able to do that.
Today Mercedes had better race pace.
The last time ferrari passed a redbull on the same strategy must have been in Austria, when the bulls were suffering.

The facts are telling a different story. In Barcelona Ferrari introduced their first update. This brought them ahread of Red Bull again, since Red Bull was faster after introducing two updates. And Mercedes was not able to chase and pass a Ferrari since Barcelona when Ferrari made no mistakes or were not in trouble. In Barcelona Leclerc drove away in the distance untill a technical problem ended his race. In Monaco - Mercedes had no chance to "chase and pass" a Ferrari either. Within a few laps only Ferrari was able to put a big margin between themselves and the Mercedes cars. In Ascherbaidschan Ferrari also drove away easily. In Great Britain Leclerc was faster than Mercedes with a badly damaged car, untill Ferrari made another strategicc mistake. In Austria Mercedes was also nowhere near chasing down or pass a Ferrari. In France Leclerc was also able to put a huge distance between himself and the Mercedes cars untill a technical problem ended his race - so sorry if i do not really see that Mercedes was able to "chase and pass" a Ferrari under "normal" conditions.These facts and the huge difference in qualifying shows clearly that these two cars are not on the same level and that Mercedes was not able to chase and pass a Ferrari under "normal" conditions. And come on - it was widely accepted by almost every F1 insider and expert that the Ferrari was the best car. Especially since Barcelona and at the beginning of the season.

Mercedes is up 4 points on Ferrari over the last 10 races. Not sure what other evidence you need that they are on exactly the same level. There are no points awarded for qualifying last time I checked

Taking the points as a reference for the pure performance level of the car - is hillarious, sorry. Especially as everyone knows about Ferraris continous mistakes and Mercedes always achieving the maximum in the races. If you take away Ferraris mistakes and the points they threw away - Ferrari would be 120 points ahead of Mercedes. And this number would be representative in terms of the performance level of the cars. The points as they are in reality don't do that. They are represenative for everything - reliability, drivers, team, strategy etc., but not of the pure performance level of the car. In pure performance Ferrari would be far ahead of Mercedes and no one serious can deny that.

But F1 is more than just the pure performance level of the car. Its about every aspect - driver performance, team performance, reliability, organisation etc. etc. etc. - and thats why Mercedes are close to Ferrari in the WCC. Because they are far ahead of Ferrari in terms of driver performance, reliability, team performance, organisation etc. - but they are not at the same level in terms of car performance. If they would be, they would be miles ahead of Ferrari in the WCC, as they clearly are ahead of them in almost all the other areas. An easy example are the F1 seasons of 1997 and 1998 - Williams(97) and McLaren(98) were the dominating cars. Much faster than the Ferrari. But Ferrari was very close. But no one would say that the Ferraris were on the same level as the FW19 or the MP4/13 in terms of pure performance because of that...

[TNTHead]

AMuS is hinting that the pace deficit is also due to track surface and bumps, leading to increase the minimum ride height which apparently didn't hamper RB too much.

https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... nfreiheit/

If FER struggles again at Zandvoort, that would be surprising, since that track layout should suit their package.

[mzso]

The only question now wether RB breaks the record for the largest point gap to the second placed driver

[Andi76]

This team will never win. There is just too much incompetence.
Also if Ferraril will be behind by a significative margin in the next race it means they were heavily impacted by the new TD, highlighting 0 political power and being incapable of reacting with upgrades just like 2017, 2018 and 2019.

I agree that its the new TD that heavily impacts Ferrari if they will be behind by a significant margin. But at the moment, i hardly doubt it. Ferrari was far behind RB in qualifying, but still as far ahead of the others teams as usual. So it was not like Ferrari suddenly was slower. RB suddenly was much faster. The temperatures were also low, something Ferrari had always problem with in 2022. But we will see what theory is right in Zandvort.

I completely disagree with your first statement. 2 years ago Ferrari was a midfield-team. Within 2 years they had the fastest car. One cannot deny they made a huge step forward, numbers don't lie. Of course they need to improve in many areas, like strategy and organisation of race weekends. But bringing a team to the highest standards in F1 takes time. Mercedes needed 4 years. Red Bull 5 years, Renault 4 years and McLaren in the early 90's even 6 years. Even Jean Todt/Ross Brawn/Rory Byrne/Michael Schumacher were not able to do this overnight. At the end of the day Ferrari made a big step forward in the last two years and technically they are already at the top, together with Red Bull. They cannot be incompetent obviously. Imcompetence isn't something that makes this possible. And two years are not enough to bring a midfieldteam to the top. No one ever did this in F1. But the next step has to be done. Strengthening the Strategy Departement and Organisation at race weekends is needed. Procedures and disciplines have to be introduced. But this needs some time. Time will tell if Ferrari is able to do that. But two things are for sure - they are not incompetent. Incompetence does not build a car as fast as the F1-75. And they improved and made a big step forward - numbers clearly prove that. Everything else is the last, infamous "10 percent" that a championship-winning team needs.

Finally i need to add that Ferraris situation reminds me of 1996, even if Ferrari today is even more sucessfull. Everyone called for changes and people to get fired. They wanted Jean Todts head on a plate...what would have happened if Todt wouldn't have been given the time necessary to properly rebuild Ferrari? Todays situation is very similar. And as in 1996 - Ferrari just needs time. Like every other team in F1 history did. No has ever been able to rebuild a team technically, organisationally and mentally(what also is a huge part of sucess) in 2 years only.

The situation is absolutely nothing like it was in the mid / late 90s. In that era, Ferrari decided that in order to relaunch the company they should have won in Formula 1. To do that, they started hiring the best possible people for the job. In 96 the car was absolutely awful. Schumacher won a few races because he was in another league compared to any other drivers in the grid. In 97 already they fought for the WDC till the last race because, despite not having a top car, they were the top in all the other areas. The same happened in 98.
Ferrari never had the best car in those years, but had MSC and a very competent strategy/ operational team which allowed them to fight till the end.

The situation is absolutely like it in the mid/late 90's as it does not matter what strategy or reason you have to bring a team back to the top. It also does not matter what your strength and weaknesses are. Rebuilding/Reorganising/Restructuring a team and its mentality to bring it back to the top is always the same. And it takes time.

Maybe you are right and it is not possible with this team as it is right now. But they are without any doubt making progress. The facts in the WCC and Poles, Race Victories do not lie. As they constantly made progress, the chance has to be given to them. The mistakes they make - and here we are again in the 90's - are very similar to the early and mid 90's, when Ferrari was also constantly making mistakes. And that was after the arrival of Todt and Stepney. The lack of self-confidence was the reason for that. And it probably is the same today. Implementing self-confidence changes a lot. In the 90's it took some years. Ferrari was, like today, the joke in paddock. But time was given to Todt and Stepney(and Ascanelli) and they transformed the "clowns of the paddock" into the best. So - as they are clearly making progress, the earned the right to get the time thats necessary without any doubt for such an evolution and transformation.

[CaribouBread]

AMuS is hinting that the pace deficit is also due to track surface and bumps, leading to increase the minimum ride height which apparently didn't hamper RB too much.

https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... nfreiheit/

If FER struggles again at Zandvoort, that would be surprising, since that track layout should suit their package.

If track undulation was the cause for their floor setup compromise, I think Zandvoort might still be cause for concern.

[Xyz22]

I agree that its the new TD that heavily impacts Ferrari if they will be behind by a significant margin. But at the moment, i hardly doubt it. Ferrari was far behind RB in qualifying, but still as far ahead of the others teams as usual. So it was not like Ferrari suddenly was slower. RB suddenly was much faster. The temperatures were also low, something Ferrari had always problem with in 2022. But we will see what theory is right in Zandvort.

I completely disagree with your first statement. 2 years ago Ferrari was a midfield-team. Within 2 years they had the fastest car. One cannot deny they made a huge step forward, numbers don't lie. Of course they need to improve in many areas, like strategy and organisation of race weekends. But bringing a team to the highest standards in F1 takes time. Mercedes needed 4 years. Red Bull 5 years, Renault 4 years and McLaren in the early 90's even 6 years. Even Jean Todt/Ross Brawn/Rory Byrne/Michael Schumacher were not able to do this overnight. At the end of the day Ferrari made a big step forward in the last two years and technically they are already at the top, together with Red Bull. They cannot be incompetent obviously. Imcompetence isn't something that makes this possible. And two years are not enough to bring a midfieldteam to the top. No one ever did this in F1. But the next step has to be done. Strengthening the Strategy Departement and Organisation at race weekends is needed. Procedures and disciplines have to be introduced. But this needs some time. Time will tell if Ferrari is able to do that. But two things are for sure - they are not incompetent. Incompetence does not build a car as fast as the F1-75. And they improved and made a big step forward - numbers clearly prove that. Everything else is the last, infamous "10 percent" that a championship-winning team needs.

Finally i need to add that Ferraris situation reminds me of 1996, even if Ferrari today is even more sucessfull. Everyone called for changes and people to get fired. They wanted Jean Todts head on a plate...what would have happened if Todt wouldn't have been given the time necessary to properly rebuild Ferrari? Todays situation is very similar. And as in 1996 - Ferrari just needs time. Like every other team in F1 history did. No has ever been able to rebuild a team technically, organisationally and mentally(what also is a huge part of sucess) in 2 years only.

The situation is absolutely nothing like it was in the mid / late 90s. In that era, Ferrari decided that in order to relaunch the company they should have won in Formula 1. To do that, they started hiring the best possible people for the job. In 96 the car was absolutely awful. Schumacher won a few races because he was in another league compared to any other drivers in the grid. In 97 already they fought for the WDC till the last race because, despite not having a top car, they were the top in all the other areas. The same happened in 98.
Ferrari never had the best car in those years, but had MSC and a very competent strategy/ operational team which allowed them to fight till the end.

The situation is absolutely like it in the mid/late 90's as it does not matter what strategy or reason you have to bring a team back to the top. It also does not matter what your strength and weaknesses are. Rebuilding/Reorganising/Restructuring a team and its mentality to bring it back to the top is always the same. And it takes time.

Maybe you are right and it is not possible with this team as it is right now. But they are without any doubt making progress. The facts in the WCC and Poles, Race Victories do not lie. As they constantly made progress, the chance has to be given to them. The mistakes they make - and here we are again in the 90's - are very similar to the early and mid 90's, when Ferrari was also constantly making mistakes. And that was after the arrival of Todt and Stepney. The lack of self-confidence was the reason for that. And it probably is the same today. Implementing self-confidence changes a lot. In the 90's it took some years. Ferrari was, like today, the joke in paddock. But time was given to Todt and Stepney(and Ascanelli) and they transformed the "clowns of the paddock" into the best. So - as they are clearly making progress, the earned the right to get the time thats necessary without any doubt for such an evolution and transformation.

Absolutely not.
As i said in 96 Ferrari didn't have a good car. In fact it was slow and unreliable, yet they started winning some races mainly thanks to MSC. In 2022 Ferrari had a very competitive car and wasted an insane amount of points due to their insane level of incompetence (see Monaco or Hungary).

Ferrari under Binotto has the same issues as it had before.

Terrible strategies --> Check
Unable to stop / influence the FIA to keep smart ideas on the car --> Check (Same happened in 2017 with flexi floor TD and PU oil usage TD)
Incapable of keeping up with development --> Check as RB will introduce a new chassis worth around 0.3s per lap which will make them way faster than Ferrari.

This season will finish with the highest point difference in F1 history, and Ferrari is still the absolute laughing stock of the paddock.

[Sieper]

I don’t laugh at them. They have built a great car, have drivers that can excel, yes have made mistakes, but also just had plain bad luck. Tear off stuck and having to pit is bad luck, ultimately that cost Charles, otherwise he could have tried to hang with Max. Would have likely come second (not lower) and then you are doing what you can.

[Xyz22]

I don’t laugh at them. They have built a great car, have drivers that can excel, yes have made mistakes, but also just had plain bad luck. Tear off stuck and having to pit is bad luck, ultimately that cost Charles, otherwise he could have tried to hang with Max. Would have likely come second (not lower) and then you are doing what you can.

A lot of people don't grasp the absolute disaster that was this season. Just look at this:

Even if Leclerc won in France his average point per race in the last 9 races would have been 11.8

Spain DNF Engine
Monaco Rueda masterclass (P1 -> P4)
Baku DNF Engine
Canada Started last
Silverstone Rueda masterclass (P1 -> P4)
Austria P1
France Own mistake
Hungary Rueda masterclass (P1 -> P6)
SPA Started 15th and lost 2 additional point thanks to Rueda

Only 1 podium with a maximum of 2 in 9 races without his mistake in France.

Next race and Monza are the last chances to win because RB will introduce a new chassis and will be far ahead of everyone else in Singapore.

[Sieper]

The engine ones are the ones where I think, could that have been avoided by takings slightly less high power settings. Not saying that it is preventable, but I am asking if it simply was a bit too much of a gamble? Strategy mistakes were also painful but that is not always so easy to get right.

[Andres125sx]