2022 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

[taperoo2k]

Asking a driver to come into the pits for a stop is low risk.

It's low risk with a 30 second gap, but Charles actually lost the place to Fernando, no, and had to race hard to get it back? Seems like a risky rather than low risk call, especially when the driver himself was not keen to pit for FL attempt.

The race to get back to 5th was high risk. Calling him in a for a pitstop?

No, don't think so. That's driver error.

In terms of the drivers championship it was a high risk decision to take, on the off chance they might score an extra point for fastest lap. It's just another example of poor decision making on the Ferrari Pitwall.

[ringo]

Mercedes is up 4 points on Ferrari over the last 10 races. Not sure what other evidence you need that they are on exactly the same level. There are no points awarded for qualifying last time I checked

Yes. Mercedes are also able to chase and pass a ferrari since Barcelona. Cars on different levels aren't able to do that.
Today Mercedes had better race pace.
The last time ferrari passed a redbull on the same strategy must have been in Austria, when the bulls were suffering.

The facts are telling a different story. In Barcelona Ferrari introduced their first update. This brought them ahread of Red Bull again, since Red Bull was faster after introducing two updates. And Mercedes was not able to chase and pass a Ferrari since Barcelona when Ferrari made no mistakes or were not in trouble. In Barcelona Leclerc drove away in the distance untill a technical problem ended his race. In Monaco - Mercedes had no chance to "chase and pass" a Ferrari either. Within a few laps only Ferrari was able to put a big margin between themselves and the Mercedes cars. In Ascherbaidschan Ferrari also drove away easily. In Great Britain Leclerc was faster than Mercedes with a badly damaged car, untill Ferrari made another strategicc mistake. In Austria Mercedes was also nowhere near chasing down or pass a Ferrari. In France Leclerc was also able to put a huge distance between himself and the Mercedes cars untill a technical problem ended his race - so sorry if i do not really see that Mercedes was able to "chase and pass" a Ferrari under "normal" conditions.These facts and the huge difference in qualifying shows clearly that these two cars are not on the same level and that Mercedes was not able to chase and pass a Ferrari under "normal" conditions. And come on - it was widely accepted by almost every F1 insider and expert that the Ferrari was the best car. Especially since Barcelona and at the beginning of the season.

Mercedes is up 4 points on Ferrari over the last 10 races. Not sure what other evidence you need that they are on exactly the same level. There are no points awarded for qualifying last time I checked

Taking the points as a reference for the pure performance level of the car - is hillarious, sorry. Especially as everyone knows about Ferraris continous mistakes and Mercedes always achieving the maximum in the races. If you take away Ferraris mistakes and the points they threw away - Ferrari would be 120 points ahead of Mercedes. And this number would be representative in terms of the performance level of the cars. The points as they are in reality don't do that. They are represenative for everything - reliability, drivers, team, strategy etc., but not of the pure performance level of the car. In pure performance Ferrari would be far ahead of Mercedes and no one serious can deny that.

But F1 is more than just the pure performance level of the car. Its about every aspect - driver performance, team performance, reliability, organisation etc. etc. etc. - and thats why Mercedes are close to Ferrari in the WCC. Because they are far ahead of Ferrari in terms of driver performance, reliability, team performance, organisation etc. - but they are not at the same level in terms of car performance. If they would be, they would be miles ahead of Ferrari in the WCC, as they clearly are ahead of them in almost all the other areas. An easy example are the F1 seasons of 1997 and 1998 - Williams(97) and McLaren(98) were the dominating cars. Much faster than the Ferrari. But Ferrari was very close. But no one would say that the Ferraris were on the same level as the FW19 or the MP4/13 in terms of pure performance because of that...

Why are you ignoring Sainz and only talking about Leclerc?

Whatever the reason, Mercedes is able to compete with Ferarri, all things considered, and can possibly finish ahead in the championship.
The race pace of the W13 is such that fighting a ferrari is an expected and realistic thing every other race. Not so with Redbull. At no point did Mercedes ever consider fighting a redbull, but they have spoke of such things with Ferarri.

[Drift4794]

[JPower]

Why are you ignoring Sainz and only talking about Leclerc?

Sainz had damage at Spain.

So Hungary and Spa have been the two tracks you could say Mercedes might be quicker across a race. Ferrari had trouble with tire deg at both races.

We'll see if the trend continues or if those were anomalies.

[Andi76]

Yes. Mercedes are also able to chase and pass a ferrari since Barcelona. Cars on different levels aren't able to do that.
Today Mercedes had better race pace.
The last time ferrari passed a redbull on the same strategy must have been in Austria, when the bulls were suffering.

The facts are telling a different story. In Barcelona Ferrari introduced their first update. This brought them ahread of Red Bull again, since Red Bull was faster after introducing two updates. And Mercedes was not able to chase and pass a Ferrari since Barcelona when Ferrari made no mistakes or were not in trouble. In Barcelona Leclerc drove away in the distance untill a technical problem ended his race. In Monaco - Mercedes had no chance to "chase and pass" a Ferrari either. Within a few laps only Ferrari was able to put a big margin between themselves and the Mercedes cars. In Ascherbaidschan Ferrari also drove away easily. In Great Britain Leclerc was faster than Mercedes with a badly damaged car, untill Ferrari made another strategicc mistake. In Austria Mercedes was also nowhere near chasing down or pass a Ferrari. In France Leclerc was also able to put a huge distance between himself and the Mercedes cars untill a technical problem ended his race - so sorry if i do not really see that Mercedes was able to "chase and pass" a Ferrari under "normal" conditions.These facts and the huge difference in qualifying shows clearly that these two cars are not on the same level and that Mercedes was not able to chase and pass a Ferrari under "normal" conditions. And come on - it was widely accepted by almost every F1 insider and expert that the Ferrari was the best car. Especially since Barcelona and at the beginning of the season.

Mercedes is up 4 points on Ferrari over the last 10 races. Not sure what other evidence you need that they are on exactly the same level. There are no points awarded for qualifying last time I checked

Taking the points as a reference for the pure performance level of the car - is hillarious, sorry. Especially as everyone knows about Ferraris continous mistakes and Mercedes always achieving the maximum in the races. If you take away Ferraris mistakes and the points they threw away - Ferrari would be 120 points ahead of Mercedes. And this number would be representative in terms of the performance level of the cars. The points as they are in reality don't do that. They are represenative for everything - reliability, drivers, team, strategy etc., but not of the pure performance level of the car. In pure performance Ferrari would be far ahead of Mercedes and no one serious can deny that.

But F1 is more than just the pure performance level of the car. Its about every aspect - driver performance, team performance, reliability, organisation etc. etc. etc. - and thats why Mercedes are close to Ferrari in the WCC. Because they are far ahead of Ferrari in terms of driver performance, reliability, team performance, organisation etc. - but they are not at the same level in terms of car performance. If they would be, they would be miles ahead of Ferrari in the WCC, as they clearly are ahead of them in almost all the other areas. An easy example are the F1 seasons of 1997 and 1998 - Williams(97) and McLaren(98) were the dominating cars. Much faster than the Ferrari. But Ferrari was very close. But no one would say that the Ferraris were on the same level as the FW19 or the MP4/13 in terms of pure performance because of that...

Why are you ignoring Sainz and only talking about Leclerc?

Whatever the reason, Mercedes is able to compete with Ferarri, all things considered, and can possibly finish ahead in the championship.
The race pace of the W13 is such that fighting a ferrari is an expected and realistic thing every other race. Not so with Redbull. At no point did Mercedes ever consider fighting a redbull, but they have spoke of such things with Ferarri.

Why i am only talking about Leclerc? Because you also have to take the drivers into account. And a Sainz or a Perez is not in the same league as Verstappen, Leclerc, Hamilton or Russel. Or do you really want to say that Hamilton and Russell are only at the level of Sainz or Perez? Having said that - Mercedes chased and passed Perez... does this mean that the Mercedes is now on Red Bull level? Certainly not, as it is not on Ferrari level.

[ringo]

The facts are telling a different story. In Barcelona Ferrari introduced their first update. This brought them ahread of Red Bull again, since Red Bull was faster after introducing two updates. And Mercedes was not able to chase and pass a Ferrari since Barcelona when Ferrari made no mistakes or were not in trouble. In Barcelona Leclerc drove away in the distance untill a technical problem ended his race. In Monaco - Mercedes had no chance to "chase and pass" a Ferrari either. Within a few laps only Ferrari was able to put a big margin between themselves and the Mercedes cars. In Ascherbaidschan Ferrari also drove away easily. In Great Britain Leclerc was faster than Mercedes with a badly damaged car, untill Ferrari made another strategicc mistake. In Austria Mercedes was also nowhere near chasing down or pass a Ferrari. In France Leclerc was also able to put a huge distance between himself and the Mercedes cars untill a technical problem ended his race - so sorry if i do not really see that Mercedes was able to "chase and pass" a Ferrari under "normal" conditions.These facts and the huge difference in qualifying shows clearly that these two cars are not on the same level and that Mercedes was not able to chase and pass a Ferrari under "normal" conditions. And come on - it was widely accepted by almost every F1 insider and expert that the Ferrari was the best car. Especially since Barcelona and at the beginning of the season.





Taking the points as a reference for the pure performance level of the car - is hillarious, sorry. Especially as everyone knows about Ferraris continous mistakes and Mercedes always achieving the maximum in the races. If you take away Ferraris mistakes and the points they threw away - Ferrari would be 120 points ahead of Mercedes. And this number would be representative in terms of the performance level of the cars. The points as they are in reality don't do that. They are represenative for everything - reliability, drivers, team, strategy etc., but not of the pure performance level of the car. In pure performance Ferrari would be far ahead of Mercedes and no one serious can deny that.

But F1 is more than just the pure performance level of the car. Its about every aspect - driver performance, team performance, reliability, organisation etc. etc. etc. - and thats why Mercedes are close to Ferrari in the WCC. Because they are far ahead of Ferrari in terms of driver performance, reliability, team performance, organisation etc. - but they are not at the same level in terms of car performance. If they would be, they would be miles ahead of Ferrari in the WCC, as they clearly are ahead of them in almost all the other areas. An easy example are the F1 seasons of 1997 and 1998 - Williams(97) and McLaren(98) were the dominating cars. Much faster than the Ferrari. But Ferrari was very close. But no one would say that the Ferraris were on the same level as the FW19 or the MP4/13 in terms of pure performance because of that...

Why are you ignoring Sainz and only talking about Leclerc?

Whatever the reason, Mercedes is able to compete with Ferarri, all things considered, and can possibly finish ahead in the championship.
The race pace of the W13 is such that fighting a ferrari is an expected and realistic thing every other race. Not so with Redbull. At no point did Mercedes ever consider fighting a redbull, but they have spoke of such things with Ferarri.

Why i only talking about Leclerc? Because you also have to take the drivers into account. And a Sainz or a Perez is not in the same league as Verstappen, Leclerc, Hamilton or Russel. Or do you really want to say that Hamilton and Russell are only at the level of Sainz or Perez? Having said that - Mercedes chased and passed Perez... does this mean that the Mercedes is now on Red Bull level? Certainly not, as it is not on Ferrari level.

No we dont have to account for the drivers, as we were talking about the cars. So by default you have to take the worse driver's level as the average you can get from the car.
So far Perez despite being slower than Max, is still untouchable by the others on Sundays.
He shoots himself in the foot with poor qualifying. But he really is not challenged on Sundays. That's how you know how strong the car is. You wont hear Lewis or George planning to race Perez or beat him. But they can speak about sainz and leclerc in the same sentence.
I am not saying the w13 is equal to the f175. But on average its good enough on Sunday's to beat an F175 considering the randomness of weather and strategy and chance. We cant even predict if a ferrari starting on the first 2 rows will not get beat by a mercedes next week. But we can safely say that a redbull will not be challenged by a w13 if it is even behind by a few rows.

[Andres125sx]

Having said that - Mercedes chased and passed Perez... does this mean that the Mercedes is now on Red Bull level?

What are you talking about? A pass during a GP means nothing if at the end of the GP they´re behind

Last GP:
1- Max Verstappen
2- Checo Perez
.
4- George Russell

[Xyz22]

After 14 races Leclerc has only 4 points more compared to 2019 when he was pretty much a rookie, rough in tyre management and was driving the --- box that is the SF 90.

This should prove once again the absolute disaster that has been the season. One of the worst i've ever seen.

[Andi76]

Why are you ignoring Sainz and only talking about Leclerc?

Whatever the reason, Mercedes is able to compete with Ferarri, all things considered, and can possibly finish ahead in the championship.
The race pace of the W13 is such that fighting a ferrari is an expected and realistic thing every other race. Not so with Redbull. At no point did Mercedes ever consider fighting a redbull, but they have spoke of such things with Ferarri.

Why i only talking about Leclerc? Because you also have to take the drivers into account. And a Sainz or a Perez is not in the same league as Verstappen, Leclerc, Hamilton or Russel. Or do you really want to say that Hamilton and Russell are only at the level of Sainz or Perez? Having said that - Mercedes chased and passed Perez... does this mean that the Mercedes is now on Red Bull level? Certainly not, as it is not on Ferrari level.

No we dont have to account for the drivers, as we were talking about the cars. So by default you have to take the worse driver's level as the average you can get from the car.
So far Perez despite being slower than Max, is still untouchable by the others on Sundays.
He shoots himself in the foot with poor qualifying. But he really is not challenged on Sundays. That's how you know how strong the car is. You wont hear Lewis or George planning to race Perez or beat him. But they can speak about sainz and leclerc in the same sentence.
I am not saying the w13 is equal to the f175. But on average its good enough on Sunday's to beat an F175 considering the randomness of weather and strategy and chance. We cant even predict if a ferrari starting on the first 2 rows will not get beat by a mercedes next week. But we can safely say that a redbull will not be challenged by a w13 if it is even behind by a few rows.

Sorry, but that makes no sense. The worse driver is not able to use the cars full potential. Sorry, but thats a fact and the reason why he is the worse driver. Its the better driver who makes full use of the cars potential and of course you have to take the driver who uses the cars real potential if you compare the performance levels of the cars.

Similar excuses you used for Perez i could now use for Sainz. And its a fact that Lewis and George planned and beat Sainz in France. So its not like there is a huge difference between beating a Ferrari and a Red Bull and that its not possible for Mercedes to beat Red Bull. As with Ferrari they obviously did it already. But as with Ferrari Mercedes needs them to make mistakes. As you say by yourself - the W13 is only able to challenge the F-75 considering the randomness of weather, strategy and chance. I absolutely agree with you on that. And the same applies for Red Bull obviously. The difference is that Red Bull makes less, if not zero, mistakes. But in terms of pure performance, and thats what this discussion was about in the first place, its usually as hard for Mercedes to beat Ferrari as it is to beat Red Bull. Ferrari and Red Bull usually are very close in terms of performance(untill Spa for sure, Zandvort will show if this has changed, but i hardly doubt it). And thats a fact. There is enough data to prove this. Formula1.com done an analysis that has shown that the F1-75 is the fastest car, with Red Bull being a close second.

[mzso]

Next race and Monza are the last chances to win because RB will introduce a new chassis and will be far ahead of everyone else in Singapore.

Monza is in some ways similar to Spa, so that chance is not much different to Ricciardo, or whoever in the midfield...

It seems like the bouncing restrictions magnified Red Bulls advantages to everyone else, most notably to Ferrari and Mercedes. And Monza with its long straights is bound to be bounce prone.

[Andi76]

Next race and Monza are the last chances to win because RB will introduce a new chassis and will be far ahead of everyone else in Singapore.

Monza is in some ways similar to Spa, so that chance is not much different to Ricciardo, or whoever in the midfield...

It seems like the bouncing restrictions magnified Red Bulls advantages to everyone else, most notably to Ferrari and Mercedes. And Monza with its long straights is bound to be bounce prone.

Monza is completely different to Spa. Spa is a very special track in terms of set-up and ride heights(very high). So in Monza things can be totally different.

Most engineers say the bouncing restrictions have almost no effect on the performance of the cars. And as Spa requires high ride heights anyway, because of the compression in Eau Rouge, the kerbs in 14 and the bumps in 15, i do not think the bouncing restrictions were the reason for RBs domination. I honestly think its like Max said - Spa is the perfect track for the RB18. What also suggests that is that RB was exceptionally fast. Its not like the others were exceptionally slow. And its also highly unlikely that the bouncing restrictions hurt every other team the same, what it would have had, as the pecking order was basically the same behind the Red Bulls. So - the only explaination that makes sense, in my opinion, is indeed that Spa just was the perfect track for Red Bull. But the next race in Zandvort will tell.

[RS200E]

After 14 races Leclerc has only 4 points more compared to 2019 when he was pretty much a rookie, rough in tyre management and was driving the --- box that is the SF 90.

This should prove once again the absolute disaster that has been the season. One of the worst i've ever seen.

That's must be a sickening statistic to all Ferrari fans. Just shows what a terrible team it is.

[JPower]

That's must be a sickening statistic to all Ferrari fans. Just shows what a terrible team it is.

Inconsistent yes, terrible, no.

[continuum16]

I'm inclined to agree Spa was an outlier in terms of relative pace. Look at Australia, it was the other way around. Ok Leclerc beat Perez by 20s, compared to Verstappen's 30s over Sainz, but there was a safety car on lap 25 in AUS (compared to lap 2 here) which meant the true gap would have been ~30s. After that I don't remember people saying "Leclerc and Ferrari are going to win the next 5 titles" like there is now with Max/RB. I know people's memories are short but this is ridiculous. If Zandvoort, Monza, and Singapore are all like Spa, then maybe I'll reconsider my position. All three tracks are very different and we will know precisely if the "gains" by RB are track specific or not.

[AR3-GP]

After 14 races Leclerc has only 4 points more compared to 2019 when he was pretty much a rookie, rough in tyre management and was driving the --- box that is the SF 90.

This should prove once again the absolute disaster that has been the season. One of the worst i've ever seen.

That's must be a sickening statistic to all Ferrari fans.

Leclerc 1 podium in the last 9 races is the far more disturbing statistic.