2022 Dutch Grand Prix - Zandvoort, Sep 02 - 04

[mendis]

Is the rule for not overtaking before the finish like kind of in the same ballpark with the ruling about restart bullying (ie going next to leading car/harrasing) which was clarified last season? If you cant overtake before the start/finish line then why be next to the leading car? It preety much guarantees you the inside on the first corner.If i was Hamilton i would have lifted before the finish line ever so slightly while Max was just alongside.

Telemetry would have made Lewis guilty of that.

[Mogster]

I know there is smell, that's why I ask people to think about it for a bit; why on earth would a team that leads by this much risk it all for a single race win? That's simply absurd.

Because they know they can get away with it obviously.

This isn't just any race win...

Exactly. Lewis standing P1 at Zandvoort…

I think that’s more why he was so angry, it’s not just any win.

[Spacepace]

Oh come on, stop it. Why on earth would RB risk a championship disqualification for racefixing, for a race win that they by no means need? It's just the most ridiculous stuff ever.
A lucky coincidence for RB, following absurd (but not malicious) decisions from AT.

It's a bit smelly though.

RB owned team with RB owned drivers creates the safety car under very strange circumstances (loose wheel AND loose seat belts AND loose diff) that gives RB driver win at RB drivers home race.

It's obviously going to stink of something to some people.


Also, Merc simultaneously giving their slower driver the faster tyres to attack for the win and leaving their faster driver defenseless was dumb.

I know there is smell, that's why I ask people to think about it for a bit; why on earth would a team that leads by this much risk it all for a single race win? That's simply absurd.

Because they'll get away with it

[JordanMugen]

Looking back on it... That buffer might not have been enough anyway! Max would have taken them one by one.

With double-stacking they would have lost track position, but fresh softs in P2-P3 is the best place to attack from. It's a no brainer to do fresh softs for a late SC restart, very standard strategy.

Wolff says they would be "screwed" if they double-stacked but I do not believe that is correct. There was easily the 3 second gap between the cars to do the double-stack, especially when it was a cheap stop with the SC driving through the lane anyway.

[Zynerji]

It seems that Yuki simply misdiagnosed the issue as a loose wheel, and AT focused on them at the pitstop as well as taking the time to tighten the belts that were an issue before the race. Unfortunately, it appears that it was the differential all along. And he stopped on track.

The real question is why AT didn't just retire the car after going 2 laps down and a justifiable issue?

Anyway, good race from Max, but I don't want to simply trade a winning steak from Mercedes to one from Red Bull..

We need 3+ teams challenging for pole every race. This is already a runaway season. I hope Ferrari, Merc, Alpine and McL spend the rest of their 2022 budget on 2023 carry over parts to reclaim some sort of catchup advantage.

[PlatinumZealot]

Looking back on it... That buffer might not have been enough anyway! Max would have taken them one by one.

With double-stacking they would have lost track position, but fresh softs in P2-P3 is the best place to attack from. It's a no brainer to do fresh softs for a late SC restart, very standard strategy.

There is No attacking Max's RedBull from behind! If you can even get within 2 seconds of it, the slower Mercedes still wouldn't pass.

The race was lost with the Alpha Tauri shennanigans.

[mendis]

It's a bit smelly though.

RB owned team with RB owned drivers creates the safety car under very strange circumstances (loose wheel AND loose seat belts AND loose diff) that gives RB driver win at RB drivers home race.

It's obviously going to stink of something to some people.


Also, Merc simultaneously giving their slower driver the faster tyres to attack for the win and leaving their faster driver defenseless was dumb.

I know there is smell, that's why I ask people to think about it for a bit; why on earth would a team that leads by this much risk it all for a single race win? That's simply absurd.

Answer: Max home town. It is dirty Politics from Team and FIA

Probably FIA would have been kinder if Toto wouldn't have forced their hand to fire their staff member last year? There are consequences.

[langedweil]

The issue I have is with AT seemingly attempting to swing the race into RedBull's favour.

But that is just in your head, so no big deal. Just don't be a Flat Earther or birds-are-drones type ..

[JordanMugen]

The real question is why AT didn't just retire the car after going 2 laps down and a justifiable issue?

Why do you think?

Mercedes have missed a trick by not having a B-team. It is insanity from Mercedes to not have one. B-teams are essential to a front-running team (or not so front-running like Honda and B-team Super Aguri) yet Mercedes were both too cheap to buy Manor and do not prioritise creating drives for De Vries and Vandoorne in F1.

Red Bull and Honda show, or have shown, the commitment to F1 racing by having the B-teams and having their own racing circuits they own.

Meanwhile Mercedes is not even the major shareholder in their own race team!

[mendis]

Looking back on it... That buffer might not have been enough anyway! Max would have taken them one by one.

With double-stacking they would have lost track position, but fresh softs in P2-P3 is the best place to attack from. It's a no brainer to do fresh softs for a late SC restart, very standard strategy.

Wolff says they would be "screwed" if they double-stacked but I do not believe that is correct. There was easily the 3 second gap between the cars to do the double-stack, especially when it was a cheap stop with the SC driving through the lane anyway.

I don't think anyone had an extra set of softs for today other than Max.

[PlatinumZealot]

The issue I have is with AT seemingly attempting to swing the race into RedBull's favour.

But that is just in your head, so no big deal. Just don't be a Flat Earther or birds-are-drones type ..

We will see about that when Toto and Binno lobby for investigation...

[Sevach]

Stewards
and Tsunoda helping max here.
Then Mercedes who should have put Lewis on the soft...just never realized that with so few laps left.. thats was the only way of winning.
Or the should have kept George out and sacrfice him to get their first win.
George really felt he had a chance.. but he doesnt on Redbull.

Oh come on, stop it. Why on earth would RB risk a championship disqualification for racefixing, for a race win that they by no means need? It's just the most ridiculous stuff ever.
A lucky coincidence for RB, following absurd (but not malicious) decisions from AT.

It's a bit smelly though.

RB owned team with RB owned drivers creates the safety car under very strange circumstances (loose wheel AND loose seat belts AND loose diff) that gives RB driver win at RB drivers home race.

It's obviously going to stink of something to some people.


Also, Merc simultaneously giving their slower driver the faster tyres to attack for the win and leaving their faster driver defenseless was dumb.

If it was planned they shouldn't have told him to come back to the pits in the first place, just leave the car there when it first happened.
The seat belt didn't do anything to anyone, just he was ready to leave when the team said drive back.
If both Hamilton and Russell stay out Max would still have won, probably with Charles second (i'm not sure here), though i agree it was "very Ferrari in Silverstone".

[mendis]

The issue I have is with AT seemingly attempting to swing the race into RedBull's favour.

But that is just in your head, so no big deal. Just don't be a Flat Earther or birds-are-drones type ..

We will see about that when Toto and Binno lobby for investigation...

I am sure Binotto will help Toto.

[Poleman]

Is the rule for not overtaking before the finish like kind of in the same ballpark with the ruling about restart bullying (ie going next to leading car/harrasing) which was clarified last season? If you cant overtake before the start/finish line then why be next to the leading car? It preety much guarantees you the inside on the first corner.If i was Hamilton i would have lifted before the finish line ever so slightly while Max was just alongside.

Telemetry would have made Lewis guilty of that.

Under what rule? As far as im aware you can brake or lift whenever you want without endagering anyone on the track.Alonso and Hamilton did this in Montreal some years ago for the DRS line,and Hamilton and Max did it last year as well.He could as well do it because technically in my understanding he is still in control before anyone crosses the line,unless i am reading things completely wrong. Anyway it wouldnt make any difference anyway,just sharing thoughts for the sake of conversation.

[JordanMugen]

We will see about that when Toto and Binno lobby for investigation...

Binotto has a B-team so unlike Wolff he is not against them.

I guess Aston Martin sort of is, but not to the same level as HAAS. Having a B-team in F1 is important (be it the transfer of ideas in the coffee shop near the shared wind tunnel as much as on-track stuff), and Mercedes and Alpine are inept in not having them.