When are we gonna see chimney/shark fin integration?

[Conceptual]

With the 15cm rule down the centerline, is it possible to actually shape the top of the sharkfin to the shape of last years chimneys? Could they increase the air over the rear wing in this fashion? Would it be legal?

Thanks!

[Scotracer]

With the 15cm rule down the centerline, is it possible to actually shape the top of the sharkfin to the shape of last years chimneys? Could they increase the air over the rear wing in this fashion? Would it be legal?

Thanks!

Couple this:



With this:



And you may get something

Upon reviewing the brilliant drawings by mariof1, you can see:



The green areas are those prohibited of having anything less than a 75mm radius of curvature. So...your allowed area is particularly small - although the area rearward (between the cover and rear wing) of the engine intake that isn't marked could be of use.

[Conceptual]

Yep, that last schematic pretty much sums up what I am asking. Can the top of the sharkfin be shaped like the 2008 "chimney" opening? It looks as if it may only be 3 CM wide, but it would be very long.

I think the Toyota have a flat top to their fin, but I havent seen an open one yet.

Would this increase the mass air to the rear wing?


Scott, do you have a pic of the Toyota in the same position as the Ranault pic above?

[panchito401]

I bet having a super elongated opening (maybe I'm misunderstanding!) like that would wreak havoc with air running over the top of the airbox opening, and mess with the efficiency of the air coming out of the exhaust.

[gridwalker]

Given the incredible heat of the exhaust gasses, wouldn't there be an issue with chanelling a large amount of hot gas up through such a constricted space (essentially turning the shark fin into a huge radiator)? We saw Renault having to protect their revised exhaust vents with titanium to prevent the bodywork from burning, so adding sufficient cladding all of the way up the shark fin could be a fairly considerable weight gain too ...

[megz]

Given the incredible heat of the exhaust gasses, wouldn't there be an issue with chanelling a large amount of hot gas up through such a constricted space (essentially turning the shark fin into a huge radiator)? We saw Renault having to protect their revised exhaust vents with titanium to prevent the bodywork from burning, so adding sufficient cladding all of the way up the shark fin could be a fairly considerable weight gain too ...

But that wouldn't really be a problem with this idea as it's not specifically for the exhaust but as a chimney much like those in years gone by on the top of the sidepods which didn't need titanium coatings to prevent burning... Or by being so far back would there be too much more heat to dissipate?

[Richard]

Ferrari already have a slit there ... viewtopic.php?f=12&t=6267&start=571

[Conceptual]

Ferrari already have a slit there ... viewtopic.php?f=12&t=6267&start=571

I mean more like where the flat part is on top of Toyota's sharkfin... If they were to extend that flat part the full length of the fin, and then open it up a bit like the chimneys of old, shouldn't that allow for alot of ventilation? I believe the air passing over the slit itself is what causes the "draw" to happen, so it shouldn't mess with the wake too much, I don't think.

Any more insight is very welcome!

[timbo]

I mean more like where the flat part is on top of Toyota's sharkfin... If they were to extend that flat part the full length of the fin, and then open it up a bit like the chimneys of old, shouldn't that allow for alot of ventilation?

How would you feed it? If you make ducts from radiator at the sides of the airbox it would increase cross-section - and drag.

Another thing might be to put a heat exchanger in that area. But they are heavy and putting a mass that high is against everything what F1 is.

[scarbs]

I like the idea, making the spine a little thicker to act as an outlet.
But I doubt it’s a workable idea, not least because of the blockage to the rear wing, but mainly because of the airflow in that area. If you had an outlet in the same place as the Toyota plate, the airflow in that area is heading downwards which would inhibit the exit of air from the duct. Also the duct has not low pressure area to feed into.

I suppose you could have the fin cut through the rear wing and have a rear facing exit in the low pressure area behind the wing, this would markedly reduce the wings effectiveness, but would look super cool!

Chimneys worked as they exited their flow in the low pressure area above the airflow passing over the sidepod. Then they were coupled with the T-wings to further help draw airflow from within them.

[Conceptual]

I like the idea, making the spine a little thicker to act as an outlet.
But I doubt it’s a workable idea, not least because of the blockage to the rear wing, but mainly because of the airflow in that area. If you had an outlet in the same place as the Toyota plate, the airflow in that area is heading downwards which would inhibit the exit of air from the duct. Also the duct has not low pressure area to feed into.

I suppose you could have the fin cut through the rear wing and have a rear facing exit in the low pressure area behind the wing, this would markedly reduce the wings effectiveness, but would look super cool!

Chimneys worked as they exited their flow in the low pressure area above the airflow passing over the sidepod. Then they were coupled with the T-wings to further help draw airflow from within them.

I thank you for your comments Scarbs.

I'm glad that you at least understand what I am saying. My question is why couldnt the shark-fin chimney work in conjunction with the rear wing, as you stated the sidepod chimney interacted with the T-wings? Also, would it be impossible to use the leading edge of the Toyota type fin-plate to create counter-rotating vortecies down the length of the fin's top edge? I could see the air being sucked past the exhaust/KERS/engine and sucked right out the top.

The question is would the turbulence of the vortex generators + the extracted air increase or diminish the effectiveness of the rear wing?

[scarbs]

the t-wing\chimney combination works as the chimney exit is influenced by the onset flow and trailing vortex from the edge of the t-wing. the shark fin woud be in the middle of the rear wing and away from this flow.

[Conceptual]

the t-wing\chimney combination works as the chimney exit is influenced by the onset flow and trailing vortex from the edge of the t-wing. the shark fin woud be in the middle of the rear wing and away from this flow.

So adding a 15cm Twing to the engine cover could influence this effect?

[ISLAMATRON]

see the cooling holes along the centerline of the engine cover?

[Giblet]

That's soooooo April....

Tomba is already on it.
http://www.f1technical.net/development/231