Mercedes W13

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter do not belong here.
AR3-GP
AR3-GP
365
Joined: 06 Jul 2021, 01:22

Re: Mercedes W13

Post

Mercedes have said several times that things were changing "underneath", "hidden", that sort of thing. They have been talking about the tunnels the entire time.

Someone else pointed this out in the Ferrari thread. Mercedes went from low sensitive tunnels, to high ones like Red Bull.
A lion must kill its prey.

User avatar
ringo
230
Joined: 29 Mar 2009, 10:57

Re: Mercedes W13

Post

Do you have pictures?
For Sure!!

AR3-GP
AR3-GP
365
Joined: 06 Jul 2021, 01:22

Re: Mercedes W13

Post

It's hidden :wink: . Anyway, ask Andi.
A lion must kill its prey.

User avatar
vorticism
323
Joined: 01 Mar 2022, 20:20

Re: Mercedes W13

Post

The jump in Spa unfortunately had photos only from the front. Unless someone can pull something from Alonso's cam although it was blury.

edit- Earlier in the thread:
RZS10 wrote:
09 Jul 2022, 16:10
Looking at this (unfortunately not perfectly scaled) comparison it is possible that they did not add those bulges etc but that they are a result of widening the tunnels and wrapping the floor around internal components.

Image

This is an attempt to visualize it, i drew those lines on the bottom one and then copied the layers to upper one and distorted them to the best of my ability so they fit a few key points ... the end of the edge top right, kinda the same point bottom left where the boat section ends, end of innermost strake top middle, edge of the plank and the line on the right is parallel to the edge of the diffuser

Image
𓄀

User avatar
vorticism
323
Joined: 01 Mar 2022, 20:20

Re: Mercedes W13

Post

From Piola at Zandvoort:

Image
𓄀

User avatar
vorticism
323
Joined: 01 Mar 2022, 20:20

Re: Mercedes W13

Post

RZS10 wrote:
09 Jun 2022, 23:50
It's just a small winglet hanging down, nothing structural. (= what wogx wrote)

https://i.imgur.com/U5tjl6a.png
https://i.imgur.com/qMTlMYo.png
Another angle:

Image

Also here, and good angle on the FW endplate:

Image
𓄀

User avatar
atanatizante
115
Joined: 10 Mar 2011, 15:33

Re: Mercedes W13

Post

Pictures are taken from the Monza track via Motorsport.com :
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/ital ... /10365842/

Image
Image
Image
Image
"I don`t have all the answers. Try Google!"
Jesus

Schumalonso
Schumalonso
0
Joined: 03 Jul 2022, 01:17

Re: Mercedes W13

Post

The flexing on the front wing of this car is egregious. It has been all year, but they took it a step further in Monza a it seems. I’m surprised this hasn’t been protested by anyone. Remember when Ferrari were protested back in 06’ at imola for a about a millimeter of deflection on their top element? This is just ridiculous.

User avatar
RZS10
359
Joined: 07 Dec 2013, 01:23

Re: Mercedes W13

Post

The main plane is not moving more, the other parts appear to move (significantly) more, it is however a flatter, lower downforce configuration - it's nicely visible on the right side of the image above the squiggly pink line - which might possibly influence (more/less) how it is perceived relative to the camera.

Image

The deflection is now seemingly closer to that on RB's wings - which is most likely why no one will protest any of it ... See here for a comparison: viewtopic.php?p=1083008#p1083008

Image: Top is Canada, middle and bottom are Monza at 68kph and 330kph, the stripe on the left is the RB from the comparison linked above.

AR3-GP
AR3-GP
365
Joined: 06 Jul 2021, 01:22

Re: Mercedes W13

Post

Being slow in Monza is indicative of either high drag or lack of engine power. Which one is it? Or is it both?
A lion must kill its prey.

User avatar
Big Tea
99
Joined: 24 Dec 2017, 20:57

Re: Mercedes W13

Post

AR3-GP wrote:
10 Sep 2022, 20:38
Being slow in Monza is indicative of either high drag or lack of engine power. Which one is it? Or is it both?
There would be no chance of it being gearing/RPM maxed out?
When arguing with a fool, be sure the other person is not doing the same thing.

User avatar
Juzh
161
Joined: 06 Oct 2012, 08:45

Re: Mercedes W13

Post

AR3-GP wrote:
10 Sep 2022, 20:38
Being slow in Monza is indicative of either high drag or lack of engine power. Which one is it? Or is it both?
This year it's been like this anytime some downforce efficiency is required. I don't believe engine is to blame for much of the deficit, maybe a little bit, but it's not like they are 50-60 bhp behind, which is what they would have to be for a ~1.5s deficit in monza, all other things being equal. Even renaults of old weren't that far behind (close), so we can confidently say it's not the case with merc today.

AR3-GP
AR3-GP
365
Joined: 06 Jul 2021, 01:22

Re: Mercedes W13

Post

AMUS reports that W13 has a small working window with the ride height which added to Monza struggle: https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... n-samstag/.

I guess that means they have a peaky aero map. If low ground clearance is central to the design concept, then won't the raised floor edges hurt them?
A lion must kill its prey.

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
593
Joined: 31 Jan 2010, 20:37

Re: Mercedes W13

Post

AR3-GP wrote:
10 Sep 2022, 21:50
AMUS reports that W13 has a small working window with the ride height which added to Monza struggle: https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... n-samstag/.

I guess that means they have a peaky aero map. If low ground clearance is central to the design concept, then won't the raised floor edges hurt them?
Assuming they don't tweak/alter the design between this season and next, yes. But they obviously will alter the design to account for the revised floor rules.
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.

mkay
mkay
16
Joined: 21 May 2010, 21:30

Re: Mercedes W13

Post

Juzh wrote:
10 Sep 2022, 21:34
AR3-GP wrote:
10 Sep 2022, 20:38
Being slow in Monza is indicative of either high drag or lack of engine power. Which one is it? Or is it both?
This year it's been like this anytime some downforce efficiency is required. I don't believe engine is to blame for much of the deficit, maybe a little bit, but it's not like they are 50-60 bhp behind, which is what they would have to be for a ~1.5s deficit in monza, all other things being equal. Even renaults of old weren't that far behind (close), so we can confidently say it's not the case with merc today.
The Mercedes ERS is massively clipping at the end of long straights though. PU clearly isn't the root cause, but they'd probably marginally more competitive if they had a Ferrari PU in their chassis.