2022 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, Sep 09 - 11

[BlueCheetah66]

Here we go.

Ignore the facts and create some some fictitious parameters to suggest the RB18 is not the cream of the field.

The RedBull has got the “cream of the field” only in the last couple of races (for whatever reason). Before that, Ferrari has simply shot themselves so many times and created this big point’s gap both in WDC and WCC. It says absolutely zero about actual car performance. I’ve never seen a season in which the points showed such an utterly unrepresentative picture regarding car performance like in the actual season. The F1-75 has been the class of the field more often than the RB18.

BS.

No doubt Ferrari has fu*ked up but RB has always has had a upper hand in race day except for Bahrain the frist race.
1. Superior Straight line speed
2. comparatively less tyre degradation then Ferrari

that has been the general theme through out the season barring few specific tracks here n there. the guy is winning races starting from 14th, 10th ffs and you guys still don't want to admit overall they have the best package .

i dont get why max fans never admit this, why they cant fathom a possibility that may be he is dominating with the help of best car + team.
Even last year after the initial changes to floor that impacted Mercedes more ( and actually suiter RB's high rake car ) the frist 10-12 races in which max went on to win 7-8 back to back .. during that phase that RB was the best car on the field. its only after the summer break Mercedes made a comeback.

This is not to take away any credit from Max, he is definitely one of the best but even the best of the bests like Shumi, Senna were only helped by the best car so there is no shame in admitting it.

Australia and Austria and Monaco Ferrari comfortably had the fastest Race car. Silverstone, France, Hungary, Saudi Arabia the race pace between Ferrari and Red Bull were equal. This idea that Red Bull has had a dominant car is based on recency bias with Spa

[SparkyAMG]

Australia and Austria and Monaco Ferrari comfortably had the fastest Race car. Silverstone, France, Hungary, Saudi Arabia the race pace between Ferrari and Red Bull were equal. This idea that Red Bull has had a dominant car is based on recency bias with Spa

France and Saudi Arabia seemed close, but Max was leading at Silverstone after passing Sainz on track before the first stops and would have driven off into the distance had it not been for damage.

He won from 10th in Hungary with ease.

I wouldn't say the RB18 has been dominant all season but in terms of race pace it's in it's own league right now.

[Shal_Leg16]

The RedBull has got the “cream of the field” only in the last couple of races (for whatever reason). Before that, Ferrari has simply shot themselves so many times and created this big point’s gap both in WDC and WCC. It says absolutely zero about actual car performance. I’ve never seen a season in which the points showed such an utterly unrepresentative picture regarding car performance like in the actual season. The F1-75 has been the class of the field more often than the RB18.

BS.

No doubt Ferrari has fu*ked up but RB has always has had a upper hand in race day except for Bahrain the frist race.
1. Superior Straight line speed
2. comparatively less tyre degradation then Ferrari

that has been the general theme through out the season barring few specific tracks here n there. the guy is winning races starting from 14th, 10th ffs and you guys still don't want to admit overall they have the best package .

i dont get why max fans never admit this, why they cant fathom a possibility that may be he is dominating with the help of best car + team.
Even last year after the initial changes to floor that impacted Mercedes more ( and actually suiter RB's high rake car ) the frist 10-12 races in which max went on to win 7-8 back to back .. during that phase that RB was the best car on the field. its only after the summer break Mercedes made a comeback.

This is not to take away any credit from Max, he is definitely one of the best but even the best of the bests like Shumi, Senna were only helped by the best car so there is no shame in admitting it.

Australia and Austria and Monaco Ferrari comfortably had the fastest Race car. Silverstone, France, Hungary, Saudi Arabia the race pace between Ferrari and Red Bull were equal. This idea that Red Bull has had a dominant car is based on recency bias with Spa

on almost every circuit RB have had higher straight line speed and less tyre degradation then Ferrari For eg.. Miami Leclerc drove a near perfect race but was a sitting duck when Max chased him and over took him like a cakewalk. thanks to speed advantage.

only circuits that had more slow / medium corners were least on paper supposed to suit Ferrari ,

but reality is if one weights in two respective advantages faster corner speed vs faster stright line speed+ low tyre degradation we all know where the balace shifts. you guys just dont want to admit a blunt fact.

[07Patches]

How are grid penalties difficult to adhere to? And why should anyone with a 5 place grid penalty only start 2 places back?
Easy example.....
P2 quali 5 place penalty=p7.
P5 with 10 place penalty=p15
Drivers without penalty are jumped up more positions, otherwise the grid penalty isn't even?

Gets slightly muddied at the back of the grid, but bigger penalties should start behind smaller penalties.
So back of grid should be back of grid, behind a p12 quali with 10 place penalty.

I don't understand making it any different to that...... surely anything different is ridiculous and unfair?

To flip it. Why should Daniel, Fernando and Pierre start ahead of Max? Max qualified ahead of them with his penalty added on. Fernando didn't even set a time in Q3. But now P10 is ahead of P7 for some reason.

Because he doesn't have a penalty, so benefits from not breaking rules/infringements on parts.
I guess it's just how I see it but a 5 place grid penalty should be 5 places. Being punished for infringements should be the same in any case, if you are a beneficiary without breaking rules, then so be it

[f1316]

Head to head Lec vs Ver with live-gap
https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/vide ... 37076.html

Basically as predicted red bull is just not very fast on straights when not under DRS, and equal at best when DRS is active. Unless tyres fall off for Lec he's got a legit chance for a win. Like-for-like I don't believe Verstappen has got any chance of overtaking him on track. We've seen in the past higher downforce cars can have A LOT of problems overtaking slippy cars even when they're half a second or even a full second faster over the lap. Bold strategy from red bull going down that road, doing a 180 from their usual modus operandi this year. Personally I think it'll backfire (if you can say that for P2), but lets wait and see.

Overall I think you’re right but in some corners - in particular T1 - you’re also seeing different driving style/approach, where Leclerc brakes very early and then gets on the power sooner to maximise speed all the way through the long right hander. Max shoots ahead on the entry to the corner but loses additional top speed because of later braking.

I wonder if, with tyres that supposedly can be pushed more, Ferrari have found that a lower downforce setting is actually beneficial for tyre life this year and they’ve been overheating their tyres in the race due to sheer load rather than sliding. In races I’ve noticed a few times that, because Leclerc loses ‘free’ time to Max on the straights, he needs to push harder to either stay within or get free of DRS and ultimately that seems to degrade his tyres sooner.

Red Bull probably know this already but think tyre wear will be less important in Monza due to long straights during which temperature is lost. It’ll be interesting to see if Ferrari generally take the approach of lower wing levels after this race - possible sacrificing quali speed for better top speed and tyre life (probably they wouldn’t do this in Singapore as track position more important but possibly Japan).

[tpe]

Seems Max does start P7

.
I don't understand that. According the rules it is going like this.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FcT08srXwAI ... name=small

The only way P7 makes sense is if they first drop off the BOG drivers, move everyone up THEN assign the standard grid drops.

They don't move up anyone.
They move down. To translate this to numbers , VER for example will be 7.1, so, higher than 8 but lower than 7 etc.

[BlueCheetah66]

BS.

No doubt Ferrari has fu*ked up but RB has always has had a upper hand in race day except for Bahrain the frist race.
1. Superior Straight line speed
2. comparatively less tyre degradation then Ferrari

that has been the general theme through out the season barring few specific tracks here n there. the guy is winning races starting from 14th, 10th ffs and you guys still don't want to admit overall they have the best package .

i dont get why max fans never admit this, why they cant fathom a possibility that may be he is dominating with the help of best car + team.
Even last year after the initial changes to floor that impacted Mercedes more ( and actually suiter RB's high rake car ) the frist 10-12 races in which max went on to win 7-8 back to back .. during that phase that RB was the best car on the field. its only after the summer break Mercedes made a comeback.

This is not to take away any credit from Max, he is definitely one of the best but even the best of the bests like Shumi, Senna were only helped by the best car so there is no shame in admitting it.

Australia and Austria and Monaco Ferrari comfortably had the fastest Race car. Silverstone, France, Hungary, Saudi Arabia the race pace between Ferrari and Red Bull were equal. This idea that Red Bull has had a dominant car is based on recency bias with Spa

on almost every circuit RB have had higher straight line speed and less tyre degradation then Ferrari For eg.. Miami Leclerc drove a near perfect race but was a sitting duck when Max chased him and over took him like a cakewalk. thanks to speed advantage.

only circuits that had more slow / medium corners were least on paper supposed to suit Ferrari ,

but reality is if one weights in two respective advantages faster corner speed vs faster stright line speed+ low tyre degradation we all know where the balace shifts. you guys just dont want to admit a blunt fact.

If you were to eliminate all Ferrari strategy errors the gap from Leclerc to Verstappen would be 54, it would be 29 if you were to eliminate Leclercs blunders in Imola and France. I am not denying that the Red Bull has been the faster car on average across the season by any means, but to say that the RB18 is a dominant car as some have suggested is not correct. Now it may turn out that from now until the end of the season Red Bull go on a run and by the end of the season it could be said that the RB18 is a dominant car, but to come to that conclusion now is a bit premature

[kediown]

[organic]

I'm expecting soft/medium for Verstappen tbh

[search]

usually starting on harder tires is a good strategy as well. In Monza there are always guys trying to undercut very early because they are stuck in a DRS train, leading to others defending their position, and all getting stuck in the same DRS train again - just behind even slower cars in the back.

[LM10]

Head to head Lec vs Ver with live-gap
https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/vide ... 37076.html

Basically as predicted red bull is just not very fast on straights when not under DRS, and equal at best when DRS is active. Unless tyres fall off for Lec he's got a legit chance for a win. Like-for-like I don't believe Verstappen has got any chance of overtaking him on track. We've seen in the past higher downforce cars can have A LOT of problems overtaking slippy cars even when they're half a second or even a full second faster over the lap. Bold strategy from red bull going down that road, doing a 180 from their usual modus operandi this year. Personally I think it'll backfire (if you can say that for P2), but lets wait and see.

Ferrari clearly faster in S1, almost as fast as RBR in S2 (only 6 hundreds difference) and equally fast in S3. So despite a significantly slimmer rear wing, Ferrari has managed to be competitive in S2.

One of the stand out strengths of Ferrari was the chicane and accelerating out of it.

[101FlyingDutchman]

Seems the strength on traction has returned. Impressive how it leaps off the chicane

[Juzh]

lec p1 lap 1.20.161
https://streamable.com/fxh8fg



ver p2 lap 1.20.306
https://streamable.com/aoxg2u

[Zynerji]

I'm expecting soft/medium for Verstappen tbh

When was the last 1 stopper?

This will be another 2-3 so race for everyone.

[yelistener]

lec p1 lap 1.20.161
https://streamable.com/fxh8fg



ver p2 lap 1.20.306
https://streamable.com/aoxg2u

Verstappen won almost every corner. Leclerc won the pole on straights, particularly on non-DRS straight. Red Bull seemed to have a different ERS deloyment, apart from its high drag setup. Not sure if this will translate into better tyres wear in race.