[MVRC] Mantium Virtual Racecar Challenge 2022 (Grand Prix Cars)

[CAEdevice]

If I used our true values every track would be a high downforce track...

This is how it should be, considering that we need to improve our cars for the reason I listed before.

Of course, if we improve the template in the future I would adjust accordingly, but for this year it is what it is.

For the purposes of a fun competition I thinks it's important to have tracks with different characteristics.

I think you are pessimistic about the possibility to improve your car. Is this good news?

Seriously, I have more fun with a realistic timelap simulation, and it would be more correct.

It's about like believing to be a F1 driver playing with F1 by Codemasters compared to a more realistic but more difficult, simulator like Rfactor2 or AssettoCorsa

But let's wait for other teams opinions, and the boss as well.

[yinlad]

By the way: which tyres and how much fuel are simulated by Max Laptime algorithm? Some of the best cars, with Hungary setup, would be faster than yesterday pole lap in Monza

All the lap sims are correlated to telemetry from Hamilton's 2020 qualifying laps (c4 tire). So yes, definitely possible that we could be faster.

I don't recall if I mentioned before but for the purposes of the lap sim I double all of our CL values in order to make the time line up better with the real cars. Here are the values that I have derived from telemetry for the real 2020 cars:

Budapest | Monza
CL -8.169 | -6.371
CD 1.74 | 1.322
CLF/CL 0.47 | 0.47
L/D -4.69 | -4.82

So, many of us may get close to the Monza setup, but so far no one has come close to the -4.08 CL required to match a "real" Hungary setup.

At what speed do you think they are hitting -8/-6.3 CL? Those numbers are waaaaay too high, pretty much double reality depending what speed you are basing them on

[spacehead3]

Anyway, here's my car for round 2. No huge changes, just some low drag wings and such.

[CAEdevice]

Anyway, here's my car for round 2. No huge changes, just some low drag wings and such.

https://i.imgur.com/c0TBOT5.png
https://i.imgur.com/e7AV7qP.png

Great car, I appreciate the detailed cooling louvres, I did not have so much patience (I will publish more images tomorrow from the office).

[spacehead3]

Anyway, here's my car for round 2. No huge changes, just some low drag wings and such.

https://i.imgur.com/c0TBOT5.png
https://i.imgur.com/e7AV7qP.png

Great car, I appreciate the detailed cooling louvres, I did not have so much patience (I will publish more images tomorrow from the office).

I have thus far spent WAY more time than I would like on cooling, haha. To my surprise, trimming the front wing did not change the cooling much, so I had to cut more holes in the sidepod.

[spacehead3]

At what speed do you think they are hitting -8/-6.3 CL? Those numbers are waaaaay too high, pretty much double reality depending what speed you are basing them on

1) That's with a high rake angle.
2) This is what I derived based on the tire data and global track grip that I used to correlate the lap sim. If either of those is too low it will cause the derived CL to be too high.
3) I actually don't think its too un-realistic, based on other race car (non-F1) wind tunnel data that I have. If you have not seen it, I was also very encouraged by the Williams FW43B CFD that David Penner ran. He got -5.6 CL for a backmarker car with no floor strakes.

At any rate, the end result is that the lap sim gets pretty close to the real telemetry trace.

[yinlad]

At what speed do you think they are hitting -8/-6.3 CL? Those numbers are waaaaay too high, pretty much double reality depending what speed you are basing them on

1) That's with a high rake angle.
2) This is what I derived based on the tire data and global track grip that I used to correlate the lap sim. If either of those is too low it will cause the derived CL to be too high.
3) I actually don't think its too un-realistic, based on other race car (non-F1) wind tunnel data that I have. If you have not seen it, I was also very encouraged by the Williams FW43B CFD that David Penner ran. He got -5.6 CL for a backmarker car with no floor strakes.

At any rate, the end result is that the lap sim gets pretty close to the real telemetry trace.

yeah but a CL value still needs to be defined at a speed, I'm just curious what speed you are calculating these CL values at.

It's also worth remembering that the old regs had more downforce by their nature and even so I still think that Williams value from the model CFD is still reading too high, especially for a 180kph run. I'm limited on what I can/can't say to back that up though so I'm afraid you need to take my word for it or disregard me as an armchair analyst

As for us, I don't really mind either way in terms of what is done with the values, as long as the scaling doesn't benefit people with better cars more than those without compared to using the vanilla values? I think there's probably 2 or 3 people that will have a car performant enough to warrant taking downforce off in exchange for drag even with doubled up values

[variante]

Here is my Race 2 car. I know it doesn't look lile much has changed, but as I have finally been able to do a little bit of development in CFD, I think I have made a decent step. I didn't have time to do any Monza-specific low drag wings, though.
https://i.postimg.cc/m22xkgGk/grr-r02.jpg

So your original car didn't see much CFD time? It would impressive, given how well it performed right away.
It looks like you're already fighting for the podium!

Here is my car for round 2.
It should be a decent step forward compared to last race. Although, I am not sure that I share Matteos optimism
https://i.imgur.com/6bPRF9H.png
https://i.imgur.com/SRRjd41.png
Considering the results of the last race:
https://i.imgur.com/CzNP6Bq.png
I would expect that variante and Max have sorted their cooling by now. I think variante is the favorite for this race

I had a last minute issue with the cooling exhaust, so it's not exactly sorted. But yeah, my car will be racing much much harder this time.
And let's not forget about JJR! If he did his homework, he'll also be fighting for the podium.

Anyway, here's my car for round 2. No huge changes, just some low drag wings and such.
https://i.imgur.com/c0TBOT5.png
https://i.imgur.com/e7AV7qP.png

Interesting that you went such a low drag approach. Must have been hard to keep the car balanced (because i usually lose a lot of efficiency with a smaller front wing).


I think that many cars will be close together this round.
I'll reveal my updated car later on. Nothing revolutionary, anyway.

[Ft5fTL]

Here is my car for round 2:




New sidepods-engine cover-front wing-t tray, low drag rear wing (with a new support), reshaped strakes-floor leading edge and diffuser. My aim is around Cl/Cd 2.1 on this one.

[spacehead3]

yeah but a CL value still needs to be defined at a speed, I'm just curious what speed you are calculating these CL values at.

Aero coefficients are normalized by velocity... There is some reynolds sensitivity but usually very small. I'm not accounting for aeroelasticity if that's what you're asking.

[spacehead3]

Here is my car for round 2:

Is that hole behind the halo a functional cooling outlet?

[Ft5fTL]

Here is my car for round 2:

Is that hole behind the halo a functional cooling outlet?

That is correct. Instead of one big cooling outlet, i have two of them that doesnt interfere with the flow on the upperside of the sidepods.

[CAEdevice]

Here is my car for round 2:
https://i.imgur.com/IecT9GP.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/jXRRwus.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/9Nwivwq.jpg

New sidepods-engine cover-front wing-t tray, low drag rear wing (with a new support), reshaped strakes-floor leading edge and diffuser. My aim is around Cl/Cd 2.1 on this one.

your car is by far the most beautiful, also thanks to the excellent rendering. The efficiency looks very good, but it depends on how much the competitors who were on the podium in Hungary have grown.

Am I wrong or did you choose a lower position for the rear wing? It is a choice I made in the days of the lmpX cars to facilitate cooling and help the diffuser. Interesting.

[Ft5fTL]

Am I wrong or did you choose a lower position for the rear wing? It is a choice I made in the days of the lmpX cars to facilitate cooling and help the diffuser. Interesting.

I trimmed the upper wing a bit, apart from that still the same wing from Hungary.

[yinlad]

A rather rushed and unrefined render but this is the R02 car. Biggest focus was getting some front downforce to sort the balance out and a few bits and pieces to reduce lift/drag in a few areas. Don't think it'll be near the front until I get time to re-do the sidepods in their entirety but it should be a lot more competitive this time out