2022 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, Sep 09 - 11

[cliffgamerz]

I re-watched the last part of the race again to see what went wrong, on lap 47 Ricardo came to halt on entry to second Lesmo corner where there was no escape route to clear the car by marshals, so it should have been a double waved yellows and or virtual safety car should have been put up immediately, but instead a yellow on the second sector was put up for full 1 lap or to be precise around a full minute to change status to FULL SAFETY CAR on OSD only and not VIRTUAL SAFETY CAR which was on lap 48, but safety car wasn't out on track till lap 51 started and it caught Russell and not Max!? Now to my surprise what happened between lap 48 till 51 where was safety car and no media or people are discussing this matter, on sky commentary on Karun questioned on lap 50 where is safety car on track but it was still not on track but on pit-lane. FIA seriously needs to answer this procedure as it was not according to normal standard procedure, last year Abu Dhabi is a different thing and its not related to what happened here, the system is flawed and i was surprised no teams nor media or fans as discussing this topic. Also it wasn't a crash and no debris or damage to barrier was there to halt the safe restart to race which was bizarre, at least one lap racing was possible because car was cleared off track at end of lap 51. All these careful observations were made by pausing the broadcast and taking notes, so anyone else can do the same to confirm my findings.

I can also understand the anger of Tifosi's shown at end of the race, but honestly it was so wrong of anyone to Boo at drivers for something they didn't have control at or even do anything wrong from their end, it is pathetic if the crowd threw foul language and hatred towards Max's family or team members, those people should be banned from entry to any F1 events or any events. To be just mad or angry at FIA for what happened is fair, but that doesn't mean doing death threats or calling names, instead it needs proper investigation and review like last years last race. Also i see people on this forum just show a hate towards other fans, so i never comment always,i just want to share my unbiased opinion and if anyone is offended by anything i say i will say sorry in advance as i don't intend to hurt anyone's feelings, we are just fans, let the drivers and teams do the fighting on track, lets just enjoy the races as they are as long as they are fair and fun to watch.

[Postmoe]

.
I admire the italian fanbase as they can love formula 1, but they certainly love even more fair tax regulations at EU level.

It's not at all about Max, it's just they don't like tax havens.

.
Sorry, I don't know what you are trying to say. Tax?

Yesterday a big McLaren fan collected video's and put those on his Twitter account.
He doesn't understand (like many people) why the F1, FIA AND Sky Sport aren't mention this disgusting behaviour.

https://twitter.com/SamMaleyUK

Man, all I see is quite mild. I don't personally like this kind of ambience, the other gp with flares in the middle of the track and this one with the usual tiffosi stuff, but I reacted sarcastically because I took wouter's post as something somewhat humorous.

Obviously, it wouldn't if Max was IDK, chinese. But he isn't.

I however now I understand some take very seriously those things. No harm intended. No spoilage over national anthems, let them remain untainted.

[Big Tea]

The obvious response from FIA now is going to be to move fans even further back from the track. We will need binoculars to watch before long

[Sieper]

I re-watched the last part of the race again to see what went wrong, on lap 47 Ricardo came to halt on entry to second Lesmo corner where there was no escape route to clear the car by marshals, so it should have been a double waved yellows and or virtual safety car should have been put up immediately, but instead a yellow on the second sector was put up for full 1 lap or to be precise around a full minute to change status to FULL SAFETY CAR on OSD only and not VIRTUAL SAFETY CAR which was on lap 48, but safety car wasn't out on track till lap 51 started and it caught Russell and not Max!? Now to my surprise what happened between lap 48 till 51 where was safety car and no media or people are discussing this matter, on sky commentary on Karun questioned on lap 50 where is safety car on track but it was still not on track but on pit-lane. FIA seriously needs to answer this procedure as it was not according to normal standard procedure, last year Abu Dhabi is a different thing and its not related to what happened here, the system is flawed and i was surprised no teams nor media or fans as discussing this topic. Also it wasn't a crash and no debris or damage to barrier was there to halt the safe restart to race which was bizarre, at least one lap racing was possible because car was cleared off track at end of lap 51. All these careful observations were made by pausing the broadcast and taking notes, so anyone else can do the same to confirm my findings.

I can also understand the anger of Tifosi's shown at end of the race, but honestly it was so wrong of anyone to Boo at drivers for something they didn't have control at or even do anything wrong from their end, it is pathetic if the crowd threw foul language and hatred towards Max's family or team members, those people should be banned from entry to any F1 events or any events. To be just mad or angry at FIA for what happened is fair, but that doesn't mean doing death threats or calling names, instead it needs proper investigation and review like last years last race. Also i see people on this forum just show a hate towards other fans, so i never comment always,i just want to share my unbiased opinion and if anyone is offended by anything i say i will say sorry in advance as i don't intend to hurt anyone's feelings, we are just fans, let the drivers and teams do the fighting on track, lets just enjoy the races as they are as long as they are fair and fun to watch.

Good analysis, like you said, this was nothing like Abu Dhabi, there they were quick to act, here, incredibly slow. And they made errors as well. By picking up Russell, and this late, no one but Max and Charles and some lapped cars were collected behind the SC in the last lap. There was no way to restart anymore as nobody was in a position to race.

I think they expected Ricciardo’s car to be pushed back and then continue. But it turned out to be seized and dropping the clutch did not work. They made no contingency for this and then it seemed they slightly panicked and made the wrong calls.

It certainly wasn’t as it should be, like Toto stated. Not an iota.

[search]

Good analysis, like you said, this was nothing like Abu Dhabi, there they were quick to act, here, incredibly slow. And they made errors as well. By picking up Russell, and this late, no one but Max and Charles and some lapped cars were collected behind the SC in the last lap. There was no way to restart anymore as nobody was in a position to race.

even a lap later it wouldn't have been possible, because, as you say, the lapped cars were still in between. They could have waved them through together with Russell and so on, but for whatever reason, didn't.

[AR3-GP]

Good analysis, like you said, this was nothing like Abu Dhabi, there they were quick to act, here, incredibly slow. And they made errors as well. By picking up Russell, and this late, no one but Max and Charles and some lapped cars were collected behind the SC in the last lap. There was no way to restart anymore as nobody was in a position to race.

even a lap later it wouldn't have been possible, because, as you say, the lapped cars were still in between. They could have waved them through together with Russell and so on, but for whatever reason, didn't.

It's time like this when the race director should be able to use discretion to speed up the wave around procedure. They messed up in the first place and caused a big delay that killed the race. Millions of people are watching. There isn't one person who didn't want to see that shootout with the Ferrari top speed advantage without DRS. They should have been able to send the lapped cars around at the same time that they were correcting the mistake of picking up Russell. F1 shouldn't be faffing about with protracted lapped car procedures when there is a simple path to restarting the race more quickly.

If the initial state is Russell behind the safety car and the final target state is Verstappen behind the SC and all lapped cars cleared, they should make the call to go straight from State A to State B by sending all cars at the same time around. Anything else is an inefficient waste of time.

[hollus]

I re-watched the last part of the race again to see what went wrong, on lap 47 Ricardo came to halt on entry to second Lesmo corner where there was no escape route to clear the car by marshals, so it should have been a double waved yellows and or virtual safety car should have been put up immediately, but instead a yellow on the second sector was put up for full 1 lap or to be precise around a full minute to change status to FULL SAFETY CAR on OSD only and not VIRTUAL SAFETY CAR which was on lap 48, but safety car wasn't out on track till lap 51 started and it caught Russell and not Max!? Now to my surprise what happened between lap 48 till 51 where was safety car and no media or people are discussing this matter, on sky commentary on Karun questioned on lap 50 where is safety car on track but it was still not on track but on pit-lane. FIA seriously needs to answer this procedure as it was not according to normal standard procedure, last year Abu Dhabi is a different thing and its not related to what happened here, the system is flawed and i was surprised no teams nor media or fans as discussing this topic. Also it wasn't a crash and no debris or damage to barrier was there to halt the safe restart to race which was bizarre, at least one lap racing was possible because car was cleared off track at end of lap 51. All these careful observations were made by pausing the broadcast and taking notes, so anyone else can do the same to confirm my findings.

I can also understand the anger of Tifosi's shown at end of the race, but honestly it was so wrong of anyone to Boo at drivers for something they didn't have control at or even do anything wrong from their end, it is pathetic if the crowd threw foul language and hatred towards Max's family or team members, those people should be banned from entry to any F1 events or any events. To be just mad or angry at FIA for what happened is fair, but that doesn't mean doing death threats or calling names, instead it needs proper investigation and review like last years last race. Also i see people on this forum just show a hate towards other fans, so i never comment always,i just want to share my unbiased opinion and if anyone is offended by anything i say i will say sorry in advance as i don't intend to hurt anyone's feelings, we are just fans, let the drivers and teams do the fighting on track, lets just enjoy the races as they are as long as they are fair and fun to watch.

Good analysis, like you said, this was nothing like Abu Dhabi, there they were quick to act, here, incredibly slow. And they made errors as well. By picking up Russell, and this late, no one but Max and Charles and some lapped cars were collected behind the SC in the last lap. There was no way to restart anymore as nobody was in a position to race.

I think they expected Ricciardo’s car to be pushed back and then continue. But it turned out to be seized and dropping the clutch did not work. They made no contingency for this and then it seemed they slightly panicked and made the wrong calls.

It certainly wasn’t as it should be, like Toto stated. Not an iota.

It is absolutely amazing how the media and a bad TV crew can change the narrative and create a false story that the whole world runs with for days...

So, I am rewatching in F1TV with the driver tracker on... occasionally checking driver cameras.

change status to FULL SAFETY CAR on OSD only and not VIRTUAL SAFETY CAR which was on lap 48, but safety car wasn't out on track till lap 51 started and it caught Russell and not Max!? Now to my surprise what happened between lap 48 till 51 where was safety car and no media or people are discussing this matter, on sky commentary on Karun questioned on lap 50 where is safety car on track but it was still not on track but on pit-lane

Yep, lap 50... where is the SC?!?! That was all of us on TV, no?

In reality, in lap 48 out of 53, with Verstappen approaching Lesmo, Russel ducks into the pits. By the time he comes out of the pit lane, Verstappen is half way through the lap, 5-1/2 laps to go, and THE SAFETY CAR IS AWAITING RUSSEL IN THE FIRST CHICANE!!! But the TV crews missed that.
OK, it is not waiting, the SC is moving relatively fast, but in plain sight in front of Russell, on track.

Why in front of Russell? Who knows. But on track. On lap 48.

By the time Russell has negotiated the first chicane, he slows down to SC speed. Max is entering the last chicane, 5.3 laps to go.

What happens after this, and the TV missed, is nothing short of amazing:

The SC continues to lap the track... as fast as it can? Normally the SC suffers in corners, but Monza... so the SC goes on, with a lap time that might be not that different to the lap deltas that the drivers have to obey...

Magnussen and Sainz catch Russell by the second chicane. Max is out of parabolica. Lap counter still in 48/53. When I say catch I mean... 20 car lenghts? Magnussen doesn't really catch Russel until the Lesmos. Half a lap after picking Russell, the queue is only 3 cars long.

The SC floors it again!

By the finish line, Hamilton is catching Sainz but not quite! One lap in, the SC queue is 3-5 cars long. Verstappen is in Lesmo 2!
The SC is still on track, of course, just not on camera.

Perez catches the queue between the Lesmos. Now it is 5 cars. Verstappen is way into lap 50/53. As Russell and the SC approach the last chicane, Tsunoda, Leclerc and Latifi are still in the main straight!

Norris catches the group after the last chicane.
As they cross the finish line, Gasly and DeVries have also joined the queue. 2 laps in, the queue is kind of 8 cars long. Max is not even in parabolica!
Verstappen crosses the line, starting lap 51/53 more or less as Russell is entering the first chicane. It is kind of a queue, but a very extended one. After 2 laps and a bit of SC, 4 Cars are still to catch up to the SC.

By the time Latifi, the last car, truly catches the queue, (so, now the Stewards finally have a decent gap to work on), the SC, now on camera, is entering the final chicane.

Essentially, the SC has covered 2.7 laps in the time Latifi covered 3.6 laps!

So, the SC car was, amazingly, too fast!!! Juzh, how fast? And that is what took SOOOOO LOOONG... OFF CAMERA!

And then of course, it was the wrong car, but whatever.

Eventually the SC did pick Verstappen instead, roughly at the same time Russel was crossing the finish line with 2 full laps to go. This time yes, Russell and his train manages about 1.9 laps in the time Verstappen managed 1.1 laps, did the SC slow down?

[search]

Eventually the SC did pick Verstappen instead, roughly at the same time Russel was crossing the finish line with 2 full laps to go. This time yes, Russell and his train manages about 1.9 laps in the time Verstappen managed 1.1 laps, did the SC slow down?

I guess this has something to do with giving everyone the same chance to pit? If the SC catches the leader instantly and slows down to queue up the cars behind as quickly as possible, it could turn into a massive disadvantage for everyone right behind.

[Zynerji]

What about having the Safety Car and lead-lap cars go through the pit-lane at the end of the first SC lap, and allow the lapped cars to stay on track? You could sort it all rather quickly, and lead-lap cars have the advantage of a quick stop.

[Big Tea]

What about having the Safety Car and lead-lap cars go through the pit-lane at the end of the first SC lap, and allow the lapped cars to stay on track? You could sort it all rather quickly, and lead-lap cars have the advantage of a quick stop.

I would prefer the other way around. Lapped cars go through the pit and have to wait at the pit exit until the S/C and train have passed, an they will join at the back of the line. Leave it free to change tyres if they want, but they re join where they join, not retake the position.

[hollus]

The point of the SC is to create a ~2 minute window without F1 cars for the crews to work on track safely. So letting the lapped cars go would negate that gap.

[chrisc90]

What about having the Safety Car and lead-lap cars go through the pit-lane at the end of the first SC lap, and allow the lapped cars to stay on track? You could sort it all rather quickly, and lead-lap cars have the advantage of a quick stop.

I would prefer the other way around. Lapped cars go through the pit and have to wait at the pit exit until the S/C and train have passed, an they will join at the back of the line. Leave it free to change tyres if they want, but they re join where they join, not retake the position.

They'd then be a extra lap down then?

[Big Tea]

What about having the Safety Car and lead-lap cars go through the pit-lane at the end of the first SC lap, and allow the lapped cars to stay on track? You could sort it all rather quickly, and lead-lap cars have the advantage of a quick stop.

I would prefer the other way around. Lapped cars go through the pit and have to wait at the pit exit until the S/C and train have passed, an they will join at the back of the line. Leave it free to change tyres if they want, but they re join where they join, not retake the position.

They'd then be a extra lap down then?

They are lapped, they are not going to be on the podium so why run a non competitive (no overtaking) lap just for the numbers? The race finishes when the leader crosses the line even if they are 4 laps down.

[chrisc90]

I would prefer the other way around. Lapped cars go through the pit and have to wait at the pit exit until the S/C and train have passed, an they will join at the back of the line. Leave it free to change tyres if they want, but they re join where they join, not retake the position.

They'd then be a extra lap down then?

They are lapped, they are not going to be on the podium so why run a non competitive (no overtaking) lap just for the numbers? The race finishes when the leader crosses the line even if they are 4 laps down.

So what if car position 11 was lapped, but the lead car was between car position 10 and 11? It could only be a few seconds for car position 11 behind 10 with a big pace advantage. So why should position 11 lose out on potential points just because they are lapped?

[search]

that even was actually more or less the case last weekend, by the way. Schumacher and Bottas in 12th and 13th were lapped, but on fresher tyres, hunting down the cars in front. Would be kinda unfair indeed to deny them a chance to take those points.