2021 Cost Cap Rumours and Speculation

[Tvetovnato]

For all you know, it might have been a couple of hundred pounds. As FIA doesn't mention it for now, we can either look at it as a couple of hundred dollars (from RB fan perspective) or a 4.99% of cost cap (from an RB adversary perspective). Both would be correct assumptions.

I’m not interested in any fan perspective, I’m interested in facts, which I sure hope will come out for the all but lost credibility of this sport.

Did we get one from 2019?

In a way we did, considering that after the secret agreement Ferrari lost all power, so it was clear what happened. But don’t you want to know how much was overspent? You seem so defensive?

[Hoffman900]

Rb statement
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FeuCoalX0AY ... ame=large

I can’t believe this RB statement at all. Wolff and Binotto have been vocal enough that they overspent, how can RB be so ‘surprised’?

Because it was RB who submitted the documents to FIA, not Wolff and Binotto.

RedBull's statement is a classic PR stunt.

Wolff and Binotto know because they know level of effort and labor / material costs, and it's pretty easy to keep track of, and have teams of accountants keeping track of the other teams the same way they have engineers doing the same. In the civil engineering world, competing design and construction firms are within tenths of a percent of each other on projects exceeding a few hundred million dollars. If you're in the business, you have a really good idea of costs.

[mendis]

I don't buy anything of that and at the same time I'm not surprised you happily buy it.

If you use up your whole budget and still need more money, it means that you spent your money less strictly in all other areas.

That was a fun statement. FIA doesn't mention where the over expenditure was and I trust what the FIA says. As much as we trusted them when they handled the matters when a team got away with burning oil to gain an advantage or another one burning excess fuel to gain an advantage. This is part of the sport where teams push to gain an advantage. So let's trust FIA one more time.

Completely to the contrary of what you say, the FIA is not even close to being trustworthy in what they say. The FIA saying that RedBull overshot the budget cap and gained a significant performance advantage in doing so, would be a really huge thing. It would put both titles of Max in doubt and at the same time it would mean that the FIA was unable to monitor such a sensitive thing.

FIA statement doesn't say it puts Max's titles in doubt. Its left for individual's imaginations to do so. I don't think anyone that knows FIA would have had faith from the time cost cap was announced, that they can monitor it with fool proof process. Heck, I personally believe every team would have breached the cost cap big time and FIA has been unable to police it. RB didn't have skilled enough people to manage it. A Criminal is no different than any of us, except that he was caught.

[GrizzleBoy]

Rb statement
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FeuCoalX0AY ... ame=large

The Red Bull team management remind me of narcissistic people who cheat on their partners.

I didn't do it!

I'm so disappointed you'd accuse me of something like this!

I fact You should feel bad for even suspecting me!

Well yes okay that is a photo of my phone screen she me talking inappropriately to another man/woman.

But it was just innocent! I was just playing around. It was just a MINOR thing.

Yes okay that is a picture of me kissing their on their butt hole.......

But this is all meaningless because the REAL issue is how did you unlock my phone?????? How could you betray me like this????

[Hoffman900]

Rb statement
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FeuCoalX0AY ... ame=large

The Red Bull team management remind me of narcissistic people who cheat on their partners.

I didn't do it!

I'm so disappointed you'd accuse me of something like this!

I fact You should feel bad for even suspecting me!

Well yes okay that is a photo of my phone screen she me talking inappropriately to another man/woman.

But it was just innocent! I was just playing around. It was just a MINOR thing.

Yes okay that is a picture of me kissing their on their butt hole.......

But this is all meaningless because the REAL issue is how did you unlock my phone?????? How could you betray me like this????

I hate the term, but it's called "gaslighting"

The term may also be used to describe a person (a "gaslighter") who presents a false narrative to another group or person, thereby leading them to doubt their perceptions and become misled, disoriented or distressed. Oftentimes this is for the gaslighter's own benefit. Normally, this dynamic is possible only when the audience is vulnerable, such as in unequal power relationships, or fearful of the losses associated with challenging the false narrative. Gaslighting is not necessarily malicious or intentional, although in some cases it is

take this plus they know they can energize their fandom, and this is how you organizations and politicians get away this crap.

[bonjon1979]

What did Horner say about the gap in Hamilton’ so wing being 0.4 mm too wide? It’s ‘black and white’ and so it’s no surprise he’s disqualified. The cost cap was very clear, they broke it and materially benefited from it. Obviously, the FIA will do anything to avoid hurting max and Red Bull but if possible it tarnishes last years championship even more.

[InsaneX_Badger]

So are we trying to say that Red Bull tried to have their cake and eat it?

[ispano6]

Rb statement
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FeuCoalX0AY ... ame=large

I can’t believe this RB statement at all. Wolff and Binotto have been vocal enough that they overspent, how can RB be so ‘surprised’?

Because it was RB who submitted the documents to FIA, not Wolff and Binotto.

Exactly, but we can presume Wolff had his eyes and people go through Red Bull's submission. His insistence on Red Bull being in breach is enough evidence that he played a part in the decision, since Red Bull insist that what they submitted was under the cost cap, but magically through the FIA and with Wolff's influence, that number somehow becomes over the cost cap. Wolff's access to insider information from the FIA is concerning.

[mendis]

I can’t believe this RB statement at all. Wolff and Binotto have been vocal enough that they overspent, how can RB be so ‘surprised’?

Because it was RB who submitted the documents to FIA, not Wolff and Binotto.

RedBull's statement is a classic PR stunt.

Wolff and Binotto know because they know level of effort and labor / material costs, and it's pretty easy to keep track of, and have teams of accountants keeping track of the other teams the same way they have engineers doing the same. In the civil engineering world, competing design and construction firms are within tenths of a percent of each other on projects exceeding a few hundred million dollars. If you're in the business, you have a really good idea of costs.

Wolff and Binotto know for sure about market condition of labor/material. They wouldn't know what RB has spent, just like Horner wouldn't know where and what Merc and Ferrari would have spent. RB is saying, they didn't overspent with regards to the documents they have submitted.

[Hoffman900]

So are we trying to say that Red Bull tried to have their cake and eat it?

They do it all the time. Remember at Barcelona when Max almost cleaned out the front of the field, and Horner patted him on the back "that's full on Max Verstappen", and whenever anyone else does anything close to that, it's "he's trying to murder us".

[LM10]

That was a fun statement. FIA doesn't mention where the over expenditure was and I trust what the FIA says. As much as we trusted them when they handled the matters when a team got away with burning oil to gain an advantage or another one burning excess fuel to gain an advantage. This is part of the sport where teams push to gain an advantage. So let's trust FIA one more time.

Completely to the contrary of what you say, the FIA is not even close to being trustworthy in what they say. The FIA saying that RedBull overshot the budget cap and gained a significant performance advantage in doing so, would be a really huge thing. It would put both titles of Max in doubt and at the same time it would mean that the FIA was unable to monitor such a sensitive thing.

FIA statement doesn't say it puts Max's titles in doubt. Its left for individual's imaginations to do so. I don't think anyone that knows FIA would have had faith from the time cost cap was announced, that they can monitor it with fool proof process. Heck, I personally believe every team would have breached the cost cap big time and FIA has been unable to police it. RB didn't have skilled enough people to manage it. A Criminal is no different than any of us, except that he was caught.

I can understand your wishful thinking as you're a RedBull fan and you're perfectly free to have your own imaginations.

[dans79]

Oracle Red Bull Racing is considered to be in Procedural and Minor Overspend Breaches of the Financial Regulations; and Williams Racing has complied with the Financial Regulations in respect of the 2021 Reporting Period with the exception of a previous Procedural Breach in regard to which the Cost Cap Administration entered into an ABA with Williams in May 2022. This Procedural Breach was then remediated by Williams in a timely, cooperative and transparent manner.

This by far the most interesting part, seems they have not rectified the procedural breach like Williams has!

[Hoffman900]

Because it was RB who submitted the documents to FIA, not Wolff and Binotto.

RedBull's statement is a classic PR stunt.

Wolff and Binotto know because they know level of effort and labor / material costs, and it's pretty easy to keep track of, and have teams of accountants keeping track of the other teams the same way they have engineers doing the same. In the civil engineering world, competing design and construction firms are within tenths of a percent of each other on projects exceeding a few hundred million dollars. If you're in the business, you have a really good idea of costs.

Wolff and Binotto know for sure about market condition of labor/material. They wouldn't know what RB has spent, just like Horner wouldn't know where and what Merc and Ferrari would have spent. RB is saying, they didn't overspent with regards to the documents they have submitted.

Not internally, but on the car, they absolutely would have a very good idea. All those updates RedBull brings? No doubt Merc and Ferrari's accountants are looking at that and guessing correctly within tenths of a percent.

Also, it's a small community. I'm sure word gets out on how sick time is being managed. We have a joke in engineering, "same faces, different acronyms". Everyone has a good idea of what's going on at the other firms. F1 is a niche community, they all know each other.

[dans79]

Exactly, but we can presume Wolff had his eyes and people go through Red Bull's submission. His insistence on Red Bull being in breach is enough evidence that he played a part in the decision, since Red Bull insist that what they submitted was under the cost cap, but magically through the FIA and with Wolff's influence, that number somehow becomes over the cost cap. Wolff's access to insider information from the FIA is concerning.

Or as i suspect, Horner was lying through his teeth, and some people just wish to blindly believe whatever he says!

[mendis]

Completely to the contrary of what you say, the FIA is not even close to being trustworthy in what they say. The FIA saying that RedBull overshot the budget cap and gained a significant performance advantage in doing so, would be a really huge thing. It would put both titles of Max in doubt and at the same time it would mean that the FIA was unable to monitor such a sensitive thing.

FIA statement doesn't say it puts Max's titles in doubt. Its left for individual's imaginations to do so. I don't think anyone that knows FIA would have had faith from the time cost cap was announced, that they can monitor it with fool proof process. Heck, I personally believe every team would have breached the cost cap big time and FIA has been unable to police it. RB didn't have skilled enough people to manage it. A Criminal is no different than any of us, except that he was caught.

I can understand your wishful thinking as you're a RedBull fan and you're perfectly free to have your own imaginations.

Can we have sane conversation without being emotional about it?