2021 Cost Cap Rumours and Speculation

[ringo]

IMO people are reading way waay too much into this.
This won't be settled for weeks. So just relax. We can't know for sure if RBR is quilty of anything at all until then.

Financials can be manipulated, filtered and assigned in so many different ways. It doesn't surprise me at all that a team has calcuated a different outcome than the FIA.

Now they'll have to go over it together, find the differences and let the lawyers decise what the regulations actually say, if anything at all. There might be both grey-zones, different interpertations as well as unspecified areas and complete loop-holes which might come to light.

Given it's the first time with the budget cap, I think its just as likely that the FIA has got it wrong than that Red Bull got it wrong.

You are right, but your suggestion is misplaced because this period has passed prior to issuance of a certificate. An auditor or finance person can correct me if I am wrong.

[LM10]

Its probably not even anywhere close to 7m dollars. Ringo probably just took the up to 5% and went straight in for the maximum amount to make his post look better. It could be something like 100,000 or 500,000$ over the cap. It would still fall into the same group of overspending.

It could be 100k, it could be 5 million. Only the FIA - and presumably the team - know what figure they've arrived at.

The former figure is enough to add performance in a small upgrade. The latter figure would add perhaps half a second.

Both of those figures would be "minor" under the regs. Adding 0.5s more than your competitors can do over a season is not insignificant.

If the overspend was deliberate, then it's straight up cheating just as running under weight would be.

Most probably much more than half a second. Some small teams don’t even have half of that money available for a complete in-season development.

Especially considering it’s a new era, even “cheap”/minor upgrades bring big improvements.

[chrisc90]

@ Ringo - entirely possible. There is a open door policy where clarifications can be given.

Let me make a example of a area that could be foul and based on some speculation earlier on in the thread.

Entertainment for employees is a exclusion (3.1 t). What if the company provides entertainment such as food and drink, games room, gym, days away bonuses, team building exercises. The team then spends £3m on doing so, including catering for hospitality guests at race weekends. Lets say out of that £3m, £1m of it is spent on providing a food /drink service to your employees and hospitality guests over the course of a year. FIA then turns round and says nope, that £1m of catering money that's providing entertainment to your staff and hospitality falls under the cost cap in the form of food and drink provided.


I can see this being a very lengthy process which will be long drawn out, together with lots of allegations of wrong-doing towards a team on areas they probably haven't fallen foul of.

[KeiKo403]

Well the news broke late in the day (relative to office hours) in the UK where most teams are based. I imagine that various media outlets will be having interviews over the coming days with various teams - although I expect Red Bull to plead the 5th - so it will be interesting to hear what other teams have to say. We won’t need to wait for USA to get some more details.

[Unc1eM0nty]

[...]
That's a BIG IF the 2021 budget was partially allocated towards the 2022 car. There is no certainty in that.
[...]

It has been mentioned here multiple times that it's not a seasonal or car budget but one for the calendar year, so of course some of the budget will have been for the current car as some of it was designed and potentially even partially built in 2021 - there was even the entire conversation of who switched their focus to next year when and many thought RB would suffer in 2022 with how much they invested in 2021.

The first test started on the 23rd Feb, that's only 7 weeks into the 2022 financial year, I think it's safe to say most of the car would have been completed by the new year (end of 2021)

[Unc1eM0nty]

Given it's the first time with the budget cap, I think its just as likely that the FIA has got it wrong than that Red Bull got it wrong.

You mean the FIA + 9 other teams got it wrong, and RB got it right

Good luck with that

[codetower]

So one possible outcome I could see happening, is that RB and the FIA come to an agreement, an Accepted Breach Agreement (ABA), whereas RB pays a hefty fine, agrees to closer monitoring for the next 2-3 years, maybe accept some suspensions (say... the next 4 races, and hope that Ferrari don't get a 1-2 in each of the last 4 races), and everyone move on.

By accepting the APA, they'd agree to a minor sporting penalty and agree not to lose any points (WCC/WDC).

[mrluke]

ITT people who don't work with money trying to explain to those that do why Red Bull have done nothing wrong.

[Evo2racer]

It’s very interesting to see that RB is already fighting the official statement of the FIA !l

People that believe the FIA got the numbers wrong are quite funny !
They took an extra week to confirm that RB went over the Cap limit and spent way to much… (up to 5%)

We will have a very interesting end of the season off track for sure!

[Evo2racer]

Talking about the possible outcome of this scandal, it can’t end up in an « official » court correct ?

It’s the « special court » of the FIA that has the ultimate control/decision if I am not mistaken ?

[chrisc90]

Talking about the possible outcome of this scandal, it can’t end up in an « official » court correct ?

It’s the « special court » of the FIA that has the ultimate control/decision if I am not mistaken ?

I believe it can go to the ‘Court of Arbitration for Sport‘

Appeals
7.29 The ICA is the independent judicial body of that name, established under the FIA Statutes and the FIA Judicial and Disciplinary Rules to act as the final appeal court for international motor sport.
7.30 An appeal of a decision by the Cost Cap Adjudication Panel can be made by either the F1 Team in question, the FIA or those individuals listed in Article 9.8(b) of these Financial Regulations who are the subject of a decision by the Cost Cap Adjudication Panel, and shall be heard by the ICA in accordance with the FIA Judicial and Disciplinary Rules.

[Just_a_fan]

That would be entirely unacceptable because any overspend during 2021 will have had a beneficial effect on the development of the 2022 car and thus also give a head start on subsequent cars that are developed from it.

That's as much a possibility as it is an uncertainty ..
Good luck in proving that.

It's entirely obvious. If you design next year's car during one year, and during that year you spend more than allowed, then your car for next year has benefitted from the overspend. If you hadn't overspent, you couldn't have spent as much on the new car and still had the performance with the old one.

[Just_a_fan]

So, who leaked this info (the two teams which FIA allege to have breached the cost cap) to the media two weeks ago? Where did this leak come from?

That's an internal employer/employee relationship issue for the FIA to look in to.

It has absolutely no bearing on a team winning two titles in a budget limited formulae by exceeding the budget limit.

[Just_a_fan]

[...]
That's a BIG IF the 2021 budget was partially allocated towards the 2022 car. There is no certainty in that.
[...]

It has been mentioned here multiple times that it's not a seasonal or car budget but one for the calendar year, so of course some of the budget will have been for the current car as some of it was designed and potentially even partially built in 2021 - there was even the entire conversation of who switched their focus to next year when and many thought RB would suffer in 2022 with how much they invested in 2021.

The first test started on the 23rd Feb, that's only 7 weeks into the 2022 financial year, I think it's safe to say most of the car would have been completed by the new year (end of 2021)

Exactly. The RB18 was designed and mostly constructed during the budget cap period in question.

[mwillems]

It has been mentioned here multiple times that it's not a seasonal or car budget but one for the calendar year, so of course some of the budget will have been for the current car as some of it was designed and potentially even partially built in 2021 - there was even the entire conversation of who switched their focus to next year when and many thought RB would suffer in 2022 with how much they invested in 2021.

The first test started on the 23rd Feb, that's only 7 weeks into the 2022 financial year, I think it's safe to say most of the car would have been completed by the new year (end of 2021)

Exactly. The RB18 was designed and mostly constructed during the budget cap period in question.

Indeed, and that very car is also an elevated platform for success in the formula for a few years ahead.

What a time to make a minor mistake with the rules. This is no minor mistake, not for the RB17, 18 or the 19 and 20 that will benefit from earlier advancements.