2022 United States Grand Prix - COTA, Oct 21 - 23

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F1NAC
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Re: 2022 United States Grand Prix - COTA, Oct 21 - 23

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graham.reeds wrote:
25 Oct 2022, 07:31
Zynerji wrote:
25 Oct 2022, 01:19
graham.reeds wrote:
24 Oct 2022, 22:31

Didn't Button lose a wing mirror at Spa from flying carbon fibre?
I personally cannot recall it ever happening outside a race ending wreck.
Couldn't find the video of it (didn't search hard though). Did find this though:"Turn 1 was mayhem caused by the guys up front. [Paul] di Resta hit my rear wing, damaged my rear wing, half the endplate was gone and driving to Eau Rouge someone's rear wing came off and went through my front wing and took the mirror off."
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/jenso ... 4/4449464/
it did happen.

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/xopig9

at 0:46 mark

Mchamilton
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Re: 2022 United States Grand Prix - COTA, Oct 21 - 23

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mendis wrote:
25 Oct 2022, 04:14
PlatinumZealot wrote:
25 Oct 2022, 03:36
AR3-GP wrote:
24 Oct 2022, 22:53
F1 is setting a dangerous precedent for taking out another driver in the opening lap and only getting a small time penalty.
This case is not black and white that's why. Sainz though innoccent, changed his line so that he could cross-over on Max. This sudden change of line left zero margin to avoid a collision from any late braking by rivals. As Brundle said, Sainz should have kept his car as steady as possible to ensure he gets out safe from turn one.
Lewis'onboard shows, it was his front wing that tapped Carlos' right rear and send him in a spin and then George t-boned him.

It doesn't, it just looks like it because George hits him at that moment. It would have been lewis with a busted endplate rather than George if that was the case.

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: 2022 United States Grand Prix - COTA, Oct 21 - 23

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mendis wrote:
25 Oct 2022, 04:14
PlatinumZealot wrote:
25 Oct 2022, 03:36
AR3-GP wrote:
24 Oct 2022, 22:53
F1 is setting a dangerous precedent for taking out another driver in the opening lap and only getting a small time penalty.
This case is not black and white that's why. Sainz though innoccent, changed his line so that he could cross-over on Max. This sudden change of line left zero margin to avoid a collision from any late braking by rivals. As Brundle said, Sainz should have kept his car as steady as possible to ensure he gets out safe from turn one.
Lewis'onboard shows, it was his front wing that tapped Carlos' right rear and send him in a spin and then George t-boned him.

Watch Georges onboard then before you complete you conclusion
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Re: 2022 United States Grand Prix - COTA, Oct 21 - 23

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I also checked some more pictures, videos and so on again, and for me it's still hard to say. Neither from the overhead shot nor Norris' onboard (which was mentioned here before) I see any gap between Hamilton's and Sainz' car.

MadMax
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Re: 2022 United States Grand Prix - COTA, Oct 21 - 23

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search wrote:
25 Oct 2022, 11:48
I also checked some more pictures, videos and so on again, and for me it's still hard to say. Neither from the overhead shot nor Norris' onboard (which was mentioned here before) I see any gap between Hamilton's and Sainz' car.
How about some links to these other images / videos?

TimW
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Re: 2022 United States Grand Prix - COTA, Oct 21 - 23

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Just watched Norris onboard. Does not look like Hamilton contacted Sainz. Seems more like people want to see something here.

Also watching it again, despite the lock up of his inner wheel, I really think too much blame is put on Russell. His trajectory left enough space on the outside. Had Leclerc not done the cut back behind Verstappen he would have been fine. And I must say that Sainz move was rather unexpected (and risky) at a race start in turn one.

And no, I am not a Russell fan or admirer or anything. He has not convinced me yet.

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RZS10
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Re: 2022 United States Grand Prix - COTA, Oct 21 - 23

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Norris' onboard, there is no upwards jolt of Hamilton's endplate, no abnormal movement of the car, no sign of any impact, especially none which would be hard enough to send a car spinning:
Image

If it was two touches there would be some movement of Carlos' car in addition to his normal rotation before the impact of George's Merc into his sidepod, that is not visible in the offboards:
Image
Image

No such movement of Carlos' car visible in George's onboard either:
Image
Image

We all know the stewards are not infallible but when the incident was noted they only named Sainz as they wanted to check who spun him, so they went through all the footage and came to the conclusion that it was Russell.
Image

But boy oh boy do i love a good narrative.
- just claim something without any definite proof
- use a video which doesn't even show the car which actually caused the collision
- it's hard to disprove because of the angles of the cameras in the available footage:
. - Hamilton's car not visible in Russell's onboard
. - all the offboards are zoomed out and the claimed point of contact hidden
. - Norris' onboard is just blurry enough to make it feasible
- post it repeatedly
thus the impossible to prove and hard to disprove claim becomes just believable enough even when looking at the footage without diving deeper into it looking for clues that show what actually happened, easily believable enough to cause some stirr on social media.

Beautiful.
Last edited by RZS10 on 25 Oct 2022, 13:46, edited 1 time in total.

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AeroDynamic
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Re: 2022 United States Grand Prix - COTA, Oct 21 - 23

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Mendis are you trolling? your assertion was already challenged to be unsubstantiated and instead of coming back with an argument that has any evidence, you recycle the same narrative with no evidence.

MadMax
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Re: 2022 United States Grand Prix - COTA, Oct 21 - 23

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@RZS10 - =D> =D> =D>

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Re: 2022 United States Grand Prix - COTA, Oct 21 - 23

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RZS10 wrote:
25 Oct 2022, 12:44
https://i.imgur.com/U4f3yu1.gif
thanks for all the slow motion gifs, hadn't seen them.

On the final one, doesn't it look like Sainz turns the steering wheel hard right before Russell hits him, though? Would he do that if the car wasn't spinning already?

Also, as mentioned, I am not sure either. It was just the impression I had when watching the footage. No need to act as if anyone WANTS to blame Hamilton at all cost. From my part at least, it's just a normal discussion about the incident, not related to any driver preference at all.

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RZS10
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Re: 2022 United States Grand Prix - COTA, Oct 21 - 23

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You can watch the highlights on youtube and go frame by frame, count the frames between the impact and when he first begins what you believe to be a slight countersteer, then go to the external view, and go back the number of frames starting at the contact - Lewis is nowhere near him at that point.

But i'm more inclined to say that it's not a correction but the hard _left_ he does for the cutback ...

edit: actually easy to confirm this observation, he goes from a hard left for the cutback to a hard right in the countersteer after the impact
Image
Last edited by RZS10 on 25 Oct 2022, 13:18, edited 2 times in total.

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Sieper
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Re: 2022 United States Grand Prix - COTA, Oct 21 - 23

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Hamilton did well to avoid the crash.

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RZS10
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Re: 2022 United States Grand Prix - COTA, Oct 21 - 23

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Everyone behind them, really - just like they did with the Stroll/Alonso incident, that one could have been nasty.

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Sieper
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Re: 2022 United States Grand Prix - COTA, Oct 21 - 23

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RZS10 wrote:
25 Oct 2022, 13:20
Everyone behind them, really - just like they did with the Stroll/Alonso incident, that one could have been nasty.
I think it was Mick who took the speed out, but I saw a few guys overtaking him there (but thankfully giving the spot back on their own). Hopefully in the future they won’t try to speed through first.

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RZS10
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Re: 2022 United States Grand Prix - COTA, Oct 21 - 23

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I wonder if they will put some of that into the best onboard video, would be interesting to see if passing Mick (i think some of them even did off track?) was safe or silly.