the H output is poor except when the ICE is at high % powerHonda Porsche fan wrote: ↑31 Oct 2022, 19:14... I'd like to see F1's current MGU-K/MGU-H technology go to road cars like it does on the Mercedes AMG One.
No, because the rules don't allow it.Honda Porsche fan wrote: ↑31 Oct 2022, 19:14Do any current LMP cars or the new Hypercars for 2023 use F1's MGU-K/MGU-H system ? If not, why not? Shouldn't technology from F1 filter down to other series?
There are cars that use an electric motor to help spool the turbo. That, at least, is one function of the MGUH.Tommy Cookers wrote: ↑31 Oct 2022, 19:52the H output is poor except when the ICE is at high % powerHonda Porsche fan wrote: ↑31 Oct 2022, 19:14... I'd like to see F1's current MGU-K/MGU-H technology go to road cars like it does on the Mercedes AMG One.
maybe there will be a Mercedes AMG One Sixth ? (single cylinder 266cc)
And in road cars the MGUK is used for regenerative braking and for low speeds and for standing starts.
Would F1 be better suited to have twin turbos either sequential, parallel or compound similar to the Toyota Supra of the 1990's? Would the racing be better?MadMax wrote: ↑31 Oct 2022, 19:41Yes, they could do that if the rules allowed. Would they? Perhaps not as it's adding mass and volume-filling equipment in a tightly packaged part of the car. In LMP, having a motor up front has very little impact on the aero packaging of the car as the nose box is quite large. On an F1 car, the nose is as small as the rules allow in order to maximise aerodynamic benefit. Likewise, adding a driveshaft up front would impact airflow going to the rest of the car.Honda Porsche fan wrote: ↑31 Oct 2022, 19:14
On the 2017 Porsche 919 Hybrid the car was temporarily AWD as the front wheels accelerated/powered the car out of the corners. Could current F1 cars do that with their MGU-K/MGU-H system if they were allowed AWD ?
Do any current LMP cars or the new Hypercars for 2023 use F1's MGU-K/MGU-H system ? If not, why not? Shouldn't technology from F1 filter down to other series?
I'd like to see F1's current MGU-K/MGU-H technology go to road cars like it does on the Mercedes AMG One.
F1 isn't a feeder series for anything. LMP/LMP-H are not F1 cars and have different compromises because they run entirely different types of races.
Road cars use regen braking which is basically what the MGU-K does anyway just without the annoying acronym. The MGU-H is probably not that useful in a road car where multiple turbos are often installed.
wuzak wrote: ↑01 Nov 2022, 03:28And in road cars the MGUK is used for regenerative braking and for low speeds and for standing starts.
Regarding standing starts, I have not seen any reference in the 2026 rules that prohibits using the MGUK below 100km/h after a race start, as it is in the current rules.
That is a good thing, as they would look rather tardy without the MGUK.
So can’t be used off the line.5.4.11 With the exception of cars starting or resuming the race from the pit lane, the MGU-K may only be used during a standing start once the car has reached 50km/h.
no ....
What was the purpose of the MGU-H, what was the FIA and engineers trying to get at and to achieve ?Tommy Cookers wrote: ↑01 Nov 2022, 11:46no ....
uniquely an MGU-H recovers free power from piston engine exhaust 'kinetic' pulses - free as backpressure isn't needed
this is bonus of about 10% power - without any increase in fuel consumption
supercharged or NA
if the exhaust is energetic ie the ICE isn't throttled to low % power/torque (as it is in road car driving)
nothing else can do this - terrestrially
(ok pulses are used in 'tuned length' exhaust systems - arguably recovering some power at some rpm ....
and there's maybe some question of pulse 'competition' eg do/don't F1 tuned length exhausts cost turbine recovery ?)
Wright & USSR made 20000 such engines - exhaust turbine recovery sent mechanically not electrically to crankshaft
plus of course recovery turbines simultaneously recover exhaust backpressure-related power if there is BP
unless ....
as Wuzak says car ICE sized to run at full power/torque eg in a series hybrid could use a power recovery turbine
mechanically or (presumably) electrically
getting an SI PU with unprecedented efficiency ie around 50%Honda Porsche fan wrote: ↑01 Nov 2022, 13:37What was the purpose of the MGU-H, what was the FIA and engineers trying to get at and to achieve ?
What do you do with a dead battery and old broken electronic devices? Where does it go? Who is entrusted with the duty to properly dispose of it? What does that company do with it after you drop it off?aleks_ader wrote: ↑01 Nov 2022, 15:50hmm For example 20yrs ago there were lead acid batteries everywhere in wild. Now they are hot commodity and u get rebate back if u buy new one. So I don't see any problem with old batteries. I think with EV batteries would be the same. But how fully or recyclable whole battery is? We don't know really, still in research. As i m aware at 70% is very good and expensive to reach atm. Although as material science and knowledge improves, certain materials could be recyclable and even regulated in future.
Gas ICE for personal transport reached its local maximum.
Other area is heavy machinery. There is not really other option as synthetic, NG or H2, CH4 fuels. There MGUH could be beneficial.
new type heavy engines on CH4 seem to run far leaner than F1 (more heat dilution - even less heat dumped to coolant)aleks_ader wrote: ↑01 Nov 2022, 15:50... heavy machinery. There is not really other option as synthetic, NG or H2, CH4 fuels. There MGUH could be beneficial.
