2021 Cost Cap Rumours and Speculation

[Big Tea]

If the level of this thread does not improve soon, we will consider closing it.

I think everyone who has anything relevant to say has already said it several times.
No one is going to change their mind for ANY reason

[MadMax]

It's not cheating if you intentionally break a rule and accept the penalty for it.

It's not cheating if you do it publicly and in full knowledge of the whole paddock and the FIA et al and in accordance with the rules laid down. Hiding an engine allocation breach would be cheating - changing an engine and saying "we are within the engine allocation limit". I guess that's the correct analogy here.

Red Bull hid nothing and did not intentionally go over the cap, Mercedes hid nothing and intentionally went over the cap.

You have to analyse Red Bulls position

The FIA said because they fed RBPT staff, that money should be included.

RB's mistake was thinking the FIA would have common sense and allow them to adjust their budget to only include money spent on people that worked in RBR.

Their downfall was thinking they could change things after when they should have changed things from the start.

The Tax credit was owed to them and if they had been allowed to resubmit, would have reduced their overspend to 400,000. Changing the food allocation would have brought them under the cap entirely.

From 2005 to 2020, there has never been any scandal associated to RBR and I am 100% sure they didn't intend to be over the cap last year. It is not in their nature.

Red Bull said their submission was in order but they said that after the FIA had started to say otherwise to them.

RB's mistake was in not asking the FIA whether they could / could not include things. The regulations actually say that the teams should check with the FIA. There is no excuse for making such a mistake.

The tax credit is a mistake on their part too - you don't count that sort of thing until you have it in your hand.

All of it could have been avoided if they had asked the FIA as they went along. That they didn't, raises the suspicion that maybe they hoped to hide things.

At the end of the day, the fault for breaching the cost cap lies squarely on Red Bull's shoulders. They messed up and have been found to have messed up. That mess up may have given them a performance benefit. It doesn't matter if the overspend was on sandwiches - if you overspend on the sandwiches that means you have more money to spend on the car. If the sandwich money had been within the budget, there would be less to spend on the car. That's why it's a big deal.

[f1jcw]

The following other parts were not adhering to the regulations:

-social security contributions
-costs regarding non-f1 activities that were already offset in different post (meaning rbr tried to offset these costs twice...)
-costs to employer bonuses associated employer social security contributions
-understated costs on disposal of fixed assets
-costs on levies of apprentice levies
-understated costs on the use of power units
-understated costs concerning use of inventory
-certain costs due to travel
-costs of maintenance pursuant

So while everybody is talking about catering and the taxes, the whole above list also is just as relevant.

If the level of this thread does not improve soon, we will consider closing it.

Wow, that list you've produced is absolutely shocking, and we are to believe this is a mistake?
Is redbull asking us to believe they are that incompetent.

But F1 will carry on, Redbull will carry on winning even with the above.

[johnny comelately]

Trust me it is cost cap related

[langedweil]

I think everyone who has anything relevant to say has already said it several times. No one is going to change their mind for ANY reason

Big Tea .. that's about the truest and most sensible reply of over 129 pages

[e30ernest]

Trust me it is cost cap related

I don't understand the connection other than instead of firing good staff, they re-allocated them for another racing project?

[dans79]

I don't understand the connection other than instead of firing good staff, they re-allocated them for another racing project?

I believe he is talking about something I mentioned back in 2020. Staff works on non f1 related projects that are aero heavy. After they have learned a significant amount they transfer to the f1 race team.

[Vanja #66]

From 2005 to 2020, there has never been any scandal associated to RBR and I am 100% sure they didn't intend to be over the cap last year. It is not in their nature.

Wait, what? Constant pushing of flexy wings, blown diffusers, getting DQ for this? 2013 mid-season tyre change which, surprising to no one, aided Red Bull directly? Scandalous behaviour towards Renault as their engine supplier in 2014 and later?

They are successful because of their aggressive pushing of the rules and playing in the gray area and having a tedious TP with enough political backside to shove their rule breaking under the rug. That's how you win in F1, ask Mercedes.

[Dee]

From 2005 to 2020, there has never been any scandal associated to RBR and I am 100% sure they didn't intend to be over the cap last year. It is not in their nature.

Wait, what? Constant pushing of flexy wings, blown diffusers, getting DQ for this? 2013 mid-season tyre change which, surprising to no one, aided Red Bull directly? Scandalous behaviour towards Renault as their engine supplier in 2014 and later?

They are successful because of their aggressive pushing of the rules and playing in the gray area and having a tedious TP with enough political backside to shove their rule breaking under the rug. That's how you win in F1, ask Mercedes.

Blown Diffuser was one of the best loophole designs in the history of the sport. Pushing of the flexi wing limits is not breaking them and I can totally get behind their behaviour towards Renault. Renault decided to start making engines again for marketing, they did nothing in 5 years to bridge the gap to Mercedes, leaving RB only paying for DNF's and bad design.

Non of that is scandalous

Im actually pretty shocked at your response

[Wouter]

From 2005 to 2020, there has never been any scandal associated to RBR and I am 100% sure they didn't intend to be over the cap last year. It is not in their nature.

.
Wait, what? Constant pushing of flexy wings, blown diffusers, getting DQ for this? 2013 mid-season tyre change which, surprising to no one, aided Red Bull directly? Scandalous behaviour towards Renault as their engine supplier in 2014 and later?

They are successful because of their aggressive pushing of the rules and playing in the gray area and having a tedious TP with enough political backside to shove their rule breaking under the rug. That's how you win in F1, ask Mercedes.

.
Unbelievable what you write here as an impartial moderator!
I can't believe what I'm reading here from a moderator.
Impartial?

[johnny comelately]

From 2005 to 2020, there has never been any scandal associated to RBR and I am 100% sure they didn't intend to be over the cap last year. It is not in their nature.

.
Wait, what? Constant pushing of flexy wings, blown diffusers, getting DQ for this? 2013 mid-season tyre change which, surprising to no one, aided Red Bull directly? Scandalous behaviour towards Renault as their engine supplier in 2014 and later?

They are successful because of their aggressive pushing of the rules and playing in the gray area and having a tedious TP with enough political backside to shove their rule breaking under the rug. That's how you win in F1, ask Mercedes.

.
Unbelievable what you write here as an impartial moderator!
I can't believe what I'm reading here from a moderator.
Impartial?

Thank you for writing that, it echoed my thoughts exactly, but could not believe it.
My suspicions were that it was deliberate baiting or a bad moment in time!
This will be a test

[dxpetrov]

Never understood he was a moderator! Lol
Seemed like a random dude desperately trying to come across as knowledgeable...

[Tiny73]

The machinations and straw man arguments that the Red Bull fans are making to justify their team breaking the rules is something to behold here. Only one team got an ABA. Just let that sink in. The amount or reasoning is immaterial, only one team were punished for breaking the rules.

[dxpetrov]

The bitterness and illiterate men arguments that sour fans of losing teams are making to justify their team incapabilities is something to laugh about here...

I've corrected that for you. You're welcome!

[Tiny73]

The bitterness and illiterate men arguments that sour fans of losing teams are making to justify their team incapabilities is something to laugh about here...

I've corrected that for you. You're welcome!

I think you’ve actually just proved my point.