2023 Las Vegas Grand Prix - Las Vegas, Nov 16 - 18

[chrisc90]

Yeah thats silly money for probably a limited view. But I guess its vegas and plenty £££. A lot of people were complaining at Silverstone going massively up in price this year.

[AR3-GP]

Yeah thats silly money for probably a limited view. But I guess its vegas and plenty £££. A lot of people were complaining at Silverstone going massively up in price this year.

One can have a nice holiday in Vegas on a non-GP weekend, and airfare and race seats at a Euro GP for the price of the seating at the GP Vegas.

[MadMax]

$500 is only for general admission. This GP isn't really good value and a circuit of unknown quality as well. You could book roundtrip airfare and grandstand tickets to a nice European GP for the same cost as these outrageous grandstand tickets in Vegas.

General admission that gives you standing room only in a very limited part of the track. Go to somewhere like Silverstone and general admission allows you to walk around the entire track - great on a Friday, for example, when you can spend the two FPs seeing the cars in all sorts of corners / straights.

Wow, the LA prices are a total mugging.

I would assume a huge chunk of it would be 'cooperate' like Monaco.

Sure, but even the general admission "poor pleb" tickets are ridiculous. $500 a ticket. And that's for entry to a limited area with limited viewing options. A grand for a couple to go to the race. Add in hotels with increased prices for a couple of nights and you're likely looking at a couple of grand for two people to go to the race. Great way to scare away the very people they claim to want to be encouraging - the fans.

[Gooch]

Should be fine if they start a twilight race and run into the night. Track should keep warm.

The race is slated to start at 11pm local time, with sunset occurring just after 4:30pm.

[Pat Pending]

Should be fine if they start a twilight race and run into the night. Track should keep warm.

The race is slated to start at 11pm local time, with sunset occurring just after 4:30pm.

OK, I know nothing about how Vegas works; is 11pm the sort of time when the stage shows etc start, or when they usually finish, i.e., are they hoping to pinch the show crowds or get them as a 'follow-on' event?

Or is purely to make viewing in Europe more convenient?

Whatever the reasoning for that start time is would throw light on which audiance they are chasing.

[Gooch]

Nothing to do with the actual attending crowd, purely for the convenience of TV viewership. Race will start at 8am for most of Europe and, on the US side of things, 11pm will conveniently avoid going head-to-head with the almighty American Football.

After some of the complaints about the Miami GP this year, I am expecting the in-person experience to be substandard, especially for a race as hyped and promoted as this one. People have some fantasy about watching the Bellagio Fountain across the track as the cars fly by, I suspect in reality much of the track will be billboarded up to keep 'free' viewing to a minimum and to help keep the noise contained. Then the way the grandstands are sectioned off onto 2 distinct off-strip properties makes me think people will be largely confined to their section for the weekend and not allowed to travel around the track. Similarly, GA is almost nonexistent, looks like 1 section/area on the inside of a corner on Ticketmaster (good luck seeing the cars over the wall). Another thing that would bother me - I've looked at Porsche Sprint Challenge, Supercup, F4, and F3 schedules, can't find anyone listed as a support race for the Vegas weekend.

Now some people might not be bothered by any of this, but for me it would be quite irritating. I spend about 90% of the race weekend in some kind of discomfort (ass hurts from metal bleacher, too hot, too wet, need to pee but won't tolerate line, bored between sessions, etc.) so I at least try to find some pleasure in the ability to walk around and I feel like I can better justify my absurd ticket costs when I am getting to watch 2-3 support series the same weekend. For this reason I think COTA and Montreal, as pricey as they are, are still fantastic races to attend. This race seems to avoid any of that.

The seemingly hostile nature of the current seating arrangement and ticketing procedure actually has me convinced this race is in no way meant for your normal or new North American F1 fan. Liberty said they want this race to be like Monaco and it will be, in that it is primarily on the schedule as the perfect race for B2B schemes as well as wining and dining corporate sponsors. The huge paddock construction project only lends itself to this idea.

[Big Tea]

General admission that gives you standing room only in a very limited part of the track. Go to somewhere like Silverstone and general admission allows you to walk around the entire track - great on a Friday, for example, when you can spend the two FPs seeing the cars in all sorts of corners / straights.

Wow, the LA prices are a total mugging.

I would assume a huge chunk of it would be 'cooperate' like Monaco.

Sure, but even the general admission "poor pleb" tickets are ridiculous. $500 a ticket. And that's for entry to a limited area with limited viewing options. A grand for a couple to go to the race. Add in hotels with increased prices for a couple of nights and you're likely looking at a couple of grand for two people to go to the race. Great way to scare away the very people they claim to want to be encouraging - the fans.

If enough people were upset enough not to attend, they would have to do something about it, but it would mean missing out. Me, I would go on a cruise and watch it on a big screen and have spending money

[kalinka]

I would assume a huge chunk of it would be 'cooperate' like Monaco.

Sure, but even the general admission "poor pleb" tickets are ridiculous. $500 a ticket. And that's for entry to a limited area with limited viewing options. A grand for a couple to go to the race. Add in hotels with increased prices for a couple of nights and you're likely looking at a couple of grand for two people to go to the race. Great way to scare away the very people they claim to want to be encouraging - the fans.

If enough people were upset enough not to attend, they would have to do something about it, but it would mean missing out. Me, I would go on a cruise and watch it on a big screen and have spending money

It won't upset anybody. For Hungaroring, the cheapest general admission ticket is like ~100EUR, which in comparison to average income is around the LV price. Average monthly income is about 1470$ in Hungary ( and you're lucky if you really earn so much ).

[MadMax]

Sure, but even the general admission "poor pleb" tickets are ridiculous. $500 a ticket. And that's for entry to a limited area with limited viewing options. A grand for a couple to go to the race. Add in hotels with increased prices for a couple of nights and you're likely looking at a couple of grand for two people to go to the race. Great way to scare away the very people they claim to want to be encouraging - the fans.

If enough people were upset enough not to attend, they would have to do something about it, but it would mean missing out. Me, I would go on a cruise and watch it on a big screen and have spending money

It won't upset anybody. For Hungaroring, the cheapest general admission ticket is like ~100EUR, which in comparison to average income is around the LV price. Average monthly income is about 1470$ in Hungary ( and you're lucky if you really earn so much ).

What is the fan experience like at the Hungaroring? Can you walk around the outside of the entire track or are you limited to just one area? Being able to walk around adds a lot to the experience of the weekend if not the race itself - one would expect to be in one location for a well-attended race at any circuit. But during free practice sessions, being able to go to different parts of the track is great. That doesn't appear to be possible in Las Vegas. It's one location for the whole weekend. That's not great value in my opinion.

[kalinka]

If enough people were upset enough not to attend, they would have to do something about it, but it would mean missing out. Me, I would go on a cruise and watch it on a big screen and have spending money

It won't upset anybody. For Hungaroring, the cheapest general admission ticket is like ~100EUR, which in comparison to average income is around the LV price. Average monthly income is about 1470$ in Hungary ( and you're lucky if you really earn so much ).

What is the fan experience like at the Hungaroring? Can you walk around the outside of the entire track or are you limited to just one area? Being able to walk around adds a lot to the experience of the weekend if not the race itself - one would expect to be in one location for a well-attended race at any circuit. But during free practice sessions, being able to go to different parts of the track is great. That doesn't appear to be possible in Las Vegas. It's one location for the whole weekend. That's not great value in my opinion.

Yes, you can walk around the areas covered by the general admission ticket. The track is in a valley (or better say bowl), so every area around it is higher than the track itself, so you can get pretty good views.

[basti313]

Yeah thats silly money for probably a limited view. But I guess its vegas and plenty £££. A lot of people were complaining at Silverstone going massively up in price this year.

One can have a nice holiday in Vegas on a non-GP weekend, and airfare and race seats at a Euro GP for the price of the seating at the GP Vegas.

Why would you want to do this? Sorry, but this is a pure nonsense comparison. A GP in a city is a completely different experience than a Euro GP.
Maybe you can remotely compare Las Vegas with Austin just from the point of weather, traffic, side program. You can not compare Vegas in any way to a Euro GP with bad view due to massive distances to the track, a $hitty frame program, walking through the mud and long traffic jams.

If you start the comparison in a proper way, then you will see:
- Vegas is similar to Monaco. Hotels will ease a bit with the race coming closer and more in the next years.
- Spore is also much more expensive than a Euro GP, but it is simply a different game.
- There is not a better and more relaxed experience than walking through the mud, driving for hours or simply no relevant side program.

In Spore the concerts are usually that good, that they make up for a 100Euro concert ticket. Easily.

A grand for a couple to go to the race.

I would rather pay this grand and enjoy Vegas than explaining my wife why we went to a GP like 2021 Spa for the rest of my marriage. Or explain to her why there is nothing to drink like Monza this year...or why there are so many a$hole fans...

After some of the complaints about the Miami GP this year, I am expecting the in-person experience to be substandard, especially for a race as hyped and promoted as this one.

I do not think you can compare Miami with Vegas. Miami is a remote track, this is not in the city.
Miami was also just money limited, this is completely differently reported for Vegas, so I do not expect the frame program to be that poor.

The seemingly hostile nature of the current seating arrangement and ticketing procedure actually has me convinced this race is in no way meant for your normal or new North American F1 fan.

??? I see only some grandstands being available. They have not even started full ticked sales.
Especially the usual North American motorsports fan would come in his own camper like for the usual remote Indy Car track?

Liberty said they want this race to be like Monaco and it will be, in that it is primarily on the schedule as the perfect race for B2B schemes as well as wining and dining corporate sponsors. The huge paddock construction project only lends itself to this idea.

Sure. But we should not overstress what we see today. Hotels are extremely high as 99% of the rooms for this weekend are not available. Vegas is big, the availability will come and prices will be fairly normal again. Same for the walkabout, there is not even a proper plan yet.
This was the same in the past for Singapore or Baku. Today no one cares about the F1 weekend in the hotels around the city anymore. This only plays a role for the hotels directly at the track.

[MadMax]

It won't upset anybody. For Hungaroring, the cheapest general admission ticket is like ~100EUR, which in comparison to average income is around the LV price. Average monthly income is about 1470$ in Hungary ( and you're lucky if you really earn so much ).

What is the fan experience like at the Hungaroring? Can you walk around the outside of the entire track or are you limited to just one area? Being able to walk around adds a lot to the experience of the weekend if not the race itself - one would expect to be in one location for a well-attended race at any circuit. But during free practice sessions, being able to go to different parts of the track is great. That doesn't appear to be possible in Las Vegas. It's one location for the whole weekend. That's not great value in my opinion.

Yes, you can walk around the areas covered by the general admission ticket. The track is in a valley (or better say bowl), so every area around it is higher than the track itself, so you can get pretty good views.

That, for me at least, makes the ticket price worthwhile even if it's locally considered expensive. The fan can get a decent view of the cars at many locations, at different speeds, etc. The Las Vegas ticket doesn't appear to allow that and, for me, is therefore excessively priced.

[Big Tea]

Yeah thats silly money for probably a limited view. But I guess its vegas and plenty £££. A lot of people were complaining at Silverstone going massively up in price this year.

One can have a nice holiday in Vegas on a non-GP weekend, and airfare and race seats at a Euro GP for the price of the seating at the GP Vegas.

Why would you want to do this? Sorry, but this is a pure nonsense comparison. A GP in a city is a completely different experience than a Euro GP.
Maybe you can remotely compare Las Vegas with Austin just from the point of weather, traffic, side program. You can not compare Vegas in any way to a Euro GP with bad view due to massive distances to the track, a $hitty frame program, walking through the mud and long traffic jams.

If you start the comparison in a proper way, then you will see:
- Vegas is similar to Monaco. Hotels will ease a bit with the race coming closer and more in the next years.
- Spore is also much more expensive than a Euro GP, but it is simply a different game.
- There is not a better and more relaxed experience than walking through the mud, driving for hours or simply no relevant side program.

In Spore the concerts are usually that good, that they make up for a 100Euro concert ticket. Easily.

A grand for a couple to go to the race.

I would rather pay this grand and enjoy Vegas than explaining my wife why we went to a GP like 2021 Spa for the rest of my marriage. Or explain to her why there is nothing to drink like Monza this year...or why there are so many a$hole fans...

After some of the complaints about the Miami GP this year, I am expecting the in-person experience to be substandard, especially for a race as hyped and promoted as this one.

I do not think you can compare Miami with Vegas. Miami is a remote track, this is not in the city.
Miami was also just money limited, this is completely differently reported for Vegas, so I do not expect the frame program to be that poor.

The seemingly hostile nature of the current seating arrangement and ticketing procedure actually has me convinced this race is in no way meant for your normal or new North American F1 fan.

??? I see only some grandstands being available. They have not even started full ticked sales.
Especially the usual North American motorsports fan would come in his own camper like for the usual remote Indy Car track?

Liberty said they want this race to be like Monaco and it will be, in that it is primarily on the schedule as the perfect race for B2B schemes as well as wining and dining corporate sponsors. The huge paddock construction project only lends itself to this idea.

Sure. But we should not overstress what we see today. Hotels are extremely high as 99% of the rooms for this weekend are not available. Vegas is big, the availability will come and prices will be fairly normal again. Same for the walkabout, there is not even a proper plan yet.
This was the same in the past for Singapore or Baku. Today no one cares about the F1 weekend in the hotels around the city anymore. This only plays a role for the hotels directly at the track.

Fair enough, but also recall the ticket price is just that. You have to get there and stay there for a week or so on top.
If staying in Monaco that becomes horrendous. Don't know what Vagas is like, but I suspect it dwarfs the ticket cost

[basti313]

One can have a nice holiday in Vegas on a non-GP weekend, and airfare and race seats at a Euro GP for the price of the seating at the GP Vegas.

Why would you want to do this? Sorry, but this is a pure nonsense comparison. A GP in a city is a completely different experience than a Euro GP.
Maybe you can remotely compare Las Vegas with Austin just from the point of weather, traffic, side program. You can not compare Vegas in any way to a Euro GP with bad view due to massive distances to the track, a $hitty frame program, walking through the mud and long traffic jams.

If you start the comparison in a proper way, then you will see:
- Vegas is similar to Monaco. Hotels will ease a bit with the race coming closer and more in the next years.
- Spore is also much more expensive than a Euro GP, but it is simply a different game.
- There is not a better and more relaxed experience than walking through the mud, driving for hours or simply no relevant side program.

In Spore the concerts are usually that good, that they make up for a 100Euro concert ticket. Easily.

A grand for a couple to go to the race.

I would rather pay this grand and enjoy Vegas than explaining my wife why we went to a GP like 2021 Spa for the rest of my marriage. Or explain to her why there is nothing to drink like Monza this year...or why there are so many a$hole fans...

After some of the complaints about the Miami GP this year, I am expecting the in-person experience to be substandard, especially for a race as hyped and promoted as this one.

I do not think you can compare Miami with Vegas. Miami is a remote track, this is not in the city.
Miami was also just money limited, this is completely differently reported for Vegas, so I do not expect the frame program to be that poor.

The seemingly hostile nature of the current seating arrangement and ticketing procedure actually has me convinced this race is in no way meant for your normal or new North American F1 fan.

??? I see only some grandstands being available. They have not even started full ticked sales.
Especially the usual North American motorsports fan would come in his own camper like for the usual remote Indy Car track?

Liberty said they want this race to be like Monaco and it will be, in that it is primarily on the schedule as the perfect race for B2B schemes as well as wining and dining corporate sponsors. The huge paddock construction project only lends itself to this idea.

Sure. But we should not overstress what we see today. Hotels are extremely high as 99% of the rooms for this weekend are not available. Vegas is big, the availability will come and prices will be fairly normal again. Same for the walkabout, there is not even a proper plan yet.
This was the same in the past for Singapore or Baku. Today no one cares about the F1 weekend in the hotels around the city anymore. This only plays a role for the hotels directly at the track.

Fair enough, but also recall the ticket price is just that. You have to get there and stay there for a week or so on top.
If staying in Monaco that becomes horrendous. Don't know what Vagas is like, but I suspect it dwarfs the ticket cost

There are hundreds of hotels and motels around Vegas and none of them is accepting bookings at the moment except for fraudulent pricing. There are 150-200k hotel rooms in and around Vegas...means somewhere in the 500k region beds. The reported number of F1 tickets is only 10% of this.
Completely different game than in Monaco, which is reported to have 5500 beds....about 1-2% of Vegas...

Prices will ease....especially if you do not stick directly to the strip, which does not make much sense for the F1 weekend.

Get there:
I would not stay a week in Vegas...boring....last time we went from San Diego to Vegas through the parcs including the grand canyon. Another time we went from San Francisco through Yosemite, flight back in both cases from LA. I never used the airport in Vegas. That means if I would go there, I would have normal flight costs.

Ticket prices:
I do not remember many prices...they took around 500Dollar in Spore about three years ago for a cheap seating ticket, general admission was somewhere in the 200Dollar range. Anything half decent would have been in the 1000Dollar region by then. Food and drinks put you down another 50-100$ per day...in Vegas the tickets come with all-inclusive, so I do not feel they are outrageously expensive, the general admission is not far from Spore in 2019. I just spend two weeks in the US, food and hotels are just expensive when there is nothing special going on...so this event needs to be put into perspective. A normal steak costs 70 dollar, with some beer and sides you easily enter the 100Dollar region. Even at a diner you loose 30-40dollar for a burger and drinks. So 500Dollar, all inclusive? That is a fair deal I would say.

In sum:
If I would go to a race with my son I would think about killing us by driving to a Euro GP. Which also puts us down somewhere up to 1kEuro. Still...I would rather go karting in the morning with him and watch the race on TV in the afternoon.

For a vacation with my wife...I would go to Spore or Vegas (maybe not in 23). Maybe Baku would be interesting, I never looked into this in detail. Visiting the city or something around for a week, maybe some roadtrip or cruise. I think that is still the most value for the money in terms of VACATION together. I do not think it is too expensive if you anyways pay 6k Dollar for the trip to add in some 2k Dollar to have the fun to watch a F1 race and the concerts together.

[Gooch]

Hotel prices could certainly drop if there were no other events in Vegas but that is far from guaranteed. NFL, NHL, college football are all possibilities that weekend, let alone other non-sport possibilities. Yes people can wait but they risk being priced out or booked out entirely as time goes on.

Just looking right now, there seems to be no slowdown in bookings despite the insane prices (common 3 night minimum not shown in this example):
https://imgur.com/a/Cs5Avr5

And I would be EXTREMELY suspect about 'inclusive food and drink'. Vegas does food & drink better than just about anyone but I don't think I have ever been to a race where the concession stand wasn't accommodated by some massive line. At COTA last year it was 1hr+, even at the start of practice, for overpriced nachos. What's it gonna be like when they're giving the food out for free? Also, the beers will still be $25 or more.