2022 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

[MadMax]

It was only taken out of Hamiltons hands in Suzuka when Rosberg won. Seconds were all he needed to get after that

If Hamilton had won in Malaysia instead of having his engine go pop, Suzuka wouldn't have mattered on its own. Malaysia happened before Suzuka. If Hamilton had won in Malaysia, he'd have had 405 points at the end of the season if the other races all went as they did. If all other races went as they did, Rosberg would have finished with 382 (he gained 3 points in Malaysia thanks to finishing 3rd instead of 4th). Rosberg would have needed to win two more of the remaining races on top of Suzuka to beat Hamilton. That's how important Malaysia was to the outcome.

I don't understand why you keep bringing it up. Unreliability happens. How many engine failures has Hamilton had in his entire career? Not many I'd bet.
Rosberg had the electrical fault in Singapore 2014 and the mgu k(I think) in AD 2014 which finished his very real title chances that season.

However, he still could have won the title by winning the last 5 races. Rosberg needed to win one to take it out of Hamiltons hands and he managed that at the first opportunity.

I bring it up because it's an important detail in the 2016 season. Rosberg did a great job in 2016 but he was undoubtedly helped by Hamilton losing 25 points at a crucial stage in the title race. That they finished the season just 5 points apart shows that losing 25 points was important.

In 2014, Rosberg had 2 retirements, Hamilton had 3 and Hamilton took the title 384 points to 317 points. So Rosberg's retirements didn't play the same role at all as the single extra retirement did in 2016.

[GrizzleBoy]

Why is anyone talking only about Malaysia for why Roaberg won in 2016?

The first half of that season Lewis car was having failures left and right that put him out of multiple quali sessions etc.

In China Ham started the race in P22 because his car broke in quali.

The very next race in Russia his car pooped out on meaning he started P10.

Probably more in between I can't be bothered to check.

Due to all of this he incurred engine penties Nico didn't have to incur and started P21 in spa later in the year.

Then of course three races later his engine blew up in Malaysia.

Malaysia was the big one for sure, but if that was the only failure he had in 2016, he'd have still beat Nico by quite a margin.

[DGP123]

‘They’ aren’t interested in what actually unfolded during that season. These are ‘stats’ people, that’s all they look at.

No surprise, that all this would be dug up again, as soon as Russell achieved the goal of beating Hamilton in the pts standings. Just fishing and to tarnish his legacy is all.

[harty71]

‘They’ aren’t interested in what actually unfolded during that season. These are ‘stats’ people, that’s all they look at.

No surprise, that all this would be dug up again, as soon as Russell achieved the goal of beating Hamilton in the pts standings. Just fishing and to tarnish his legacy is all.

Funny how Hamilton fans do exactly the same when the topic is him against Alonso.

I'm sorry if being factual and objective stands in the way of your narrative.

[SiLo]

‘They’ aren’t interested in what actually unfolded during that season. These are ‘stats’ people, that’s all they look at.

No surprise, that all this would be dug up again, as soon as Russell achieved the goal of beating Hamilton in the pts standings. Just fishing and to tarnish his legacy is all.

Funny how Hamilton fans do exactly the same when the topic is him against Alonso.

I'm sorry if being factual and objective stands in the way of your narrative.

Not entirely sure Alonso is a good example of this. Lewis beat him over a season and realistically drove better as well. That's not to say Alonso wasn't also excellent in the second half of the season to claw back some points.

[harty71]

‘They’ aren’t interested in what actually unfolded during that season. These are ‘stats’ people, that’s all they look at.

No surprise, that all this would be dug up again, as soon as Russell achieved the goal of beating Hamilton in the pts standings. Just fishing and to tarnish his legacy is all.

Funny how Hamilton fans do exactly the same when the topic is him against Alonso.

I'm sorry if being factual and objective stands in the way of your narrative.

Not entirely sure Alonso is a good example of this. Lewis beat him over a season and realistically drove better as well. That's not to say Alonso wasn't also excellent in the second half of the season to claw back some points.

Without the penalty in France he would have beat Hamilton.

It's easy to use excuses, Russell has outperformed Hamilton in his first season, it can't be denied, the points score is the only objective metric we can use.

[dans79]

James Vowles says he suspects Lewis received some damage on his car.

I'm sure the team will have some quantifiable number for it in their debrief video!

I don't think we ever heard Hamilton or the team mention that the car was damaged during the race, I'd guess it was superficial at worst.

Lewis asked for them to check over the team radio immediately after if memory serves.

[Tvetovnato]

I'm sure the team will have some quantifiable number for it in their debrief video!

I don't think we ever heard Hamilton or the team mention that the car was damaged during the race, I'd guess it was superficial at worst.

Lewis asked for them to check over the team radio immediately after if memory serves.

Come on Dans, the guy has decided that Lewis did not get any damage already, so what’s the point?

[pursue_one's]

I'm sure the team will have some quantifiable number for it in their debrief video!

I don't think we ever heard Hamilton or the team mention that the car was damaged during the race, I'd guess it was superficial at worst.

Lewis asked for them to check over the team radio immediately after if memory serves.

“I got floor damage!”, says Lewis.

[harty71]

I don't think we ever heard Hamilton or the team mention that the car was damaged during the race, I'd guess it was superficial at worst.

Lewis asked for them to check over the team radio immediately after if memory serves.

“I got floor damage!”, says Lewis.

I'm sure the team then said there wasn't any, this is all too confusing.

[AR3-GP]

Lewis had a different setup to George so we can't really compare the pace in the race (or qualifying for that matter). George seemed to be running a lot more downforce (10kph difference in top speed is massive) which might explain why he was much stronger in the damp qualifying conditions, but just as equally it could have been much worse for race pace in the dry. Lewis was quicker than even the RBs in sector 1 most of the time.

[harty71]

Lewis had a different setup to George so we can't really compare the pace in the race (or qualifying for that matter). George seemed to be running a lot more downforce (10kph difference in top speed is massive) which might explain why he was much stronger in the damp qualifying conditions, but just as equally it could have been much worse for race pace in the dry. Lewis was quicker than even the RBs in sector 1 most of the time.

That's it and for total laptime, the higher downforce was better, like for like Russell was faster on Sunday.

[AR3-GP]

Lewis had a different setup to George so we can't really compare the pace in the race (or qualifying for that matter). George seemed to be running a lot more downforce (10kph difference in top speed is massive) which might explain why he was much stronger in the damp qualifying conditions, but just as equally it could have been much worse for race pace in the dry. Lewis was quicker than even the RBs in sector 1 most of the time.

That's it and for total laptime, the higher downforce was better, like for like Russell was faster on Sunday.

I actually am not sure it's easy to tell. Lewis looked quite fast in the middle of the race, but I suspect George Russell was simply managing his pace with a 10 second gap to second place. Lewis also seemed to be able to hold the 1.1-1.2 second gap behind George after the restart. I do think Lewis's lower downforce setup was a faster configuration for this circuit in the race but there I am already making so man assumptions. It's hard to separate what level of performance comes from the driver, and what is owed to the car in these types of discussions when the two drivers have different setups.

We really can't know if high downforce or low downforce was better without assuming that each driver was "equal" in extracting 100% of the potential out of the car. As I mentioned earlier, what's most impressive is that there is not many drivers who would have withstood the pressure from Hamilton at the end of the race regardless of whose car or setup was faster. That was my takeaway about George. His ability to hold that gap teetering just over 1 second was remarkable.

[harty71]

Lewis had a different setup to George so we can't really compare the pace in the race (or qualifying for that matter). George seemed to be running a lot more downforce (10kph difference in top speed is massive) which might explain why he was much stronger in the damp qualifying conditions, but just as equally it could have been much worse for race pace in the dry. Lewis was quicker than even the RBs in sector 1 most of the time.

That's it and for total laptime, the higher downforce was better, like for like Russell was faster on Sunday.

I actually am not sure it's easy to tell. Lewis looked quite fast in the middle of the race, but I suspect George Russell was simply managing his pace with a 10 second gap to second place. Lewis also seemed to be able to hold the 1.1-1.2 second gap behind George after the restart. I do think Lewis's lower downforce setup was a faster configuration for this circuit in the race but there I am already making so man assumptions. It's hard to separate what level of performance comes from the driver, and what is owed to the car in these types of discussions when the two drivers have different setups.

We really can't know if high downforce or low downforce was better without assuming that each driver was "equal" in extracting 100% of the potential out of the car. As I mentioned earlier, what's most impressive is that there is not many drivers who would have withstood the pressure from Hamilton at the end of the race regardless of whose car or setup was faster. That was my takeaway about George. His ability to hold that gap teetering just over 1 second was remarkable.

He was definitely managing his pace, once Hamilton passed Perez after showing blistering pace he was not making an impact on the gap to Russell.

From what I recall Russell had the race covered, if Hamilton was actually faster he would have made the pass after the safety car. He had tyres that were a couple of laps younger plus a massive straight line advantage.

I think we must accept that Russell was superior all weekend, he's not the first driver to defeat Hamilton but given the circumstances I don't think Bottas or even Rosberg for that matter would have held him off.

[mendis]

I think we must accept that Russell was superior all weekend, he's not the first driver to defeat Hamilton but given the circumstances I don't think Bottas or even Rosberg for that matter would have held him off.

Both Rosberg and Bottas have done the holding up Lewis job to win races. There have been also times when they cracked when Lewis chased them. We will see if George is better than both of them.