It depends on why they want to join. If it it just to be seen racing, or if they really believe they can brush aside these amateurs now winning because they are the real thing, an international concern with big money and lots of resources, you are right, they will be flotsam until they call it a day. However, everyone has to start somewhere, and if they start off with a team that know whish way is up, and they are empowered to do it their way, there is no reason why they can not become at least mid field runners quite soon.jordanb wrote: ↑06 Jan 2023, 01:20What F1 don't need is more blue flags. Any non factory team is doomed to be midfield to backmarker. Most drivers that drive for these midfield or backmarkers never makes it to the sharp end of the grid. I don't know what value new teams bring to the table. Existing teams hate it as they are afraid of sharing their F1 earnings.
We have had poorly funded teams cone and go. Even the well funded teams like Toyota and Honda struggled to find success. The top 3 current teams have built infrastructure and talent depth over a very long period of time. Teams like Aston Martin have been investing heavily and poaching people,but are nowhere near being successful to reach the front.
I am very sceptical of these new teams that doesn't seem to have an Idea of the pain they have to go through and the beating the new brand is going to take. Teams that got successful in the last decade had key ingredients like Adrian Newey and Ross Brawn. I don't see that happening to other new teams and that seals the fate
Same with Alpine.. It's just a brand name under General Motorsmwillems wrote: ↑05 Jan 2023, 23:54https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/64177632
Andretti in F1 is very exciting, I'll be pleased to see more teams on the grid and more spots for talented drivers.
But Cadillac... I didn't see that coming.
But the brand that you attach to F1 has some significance, right? Alpine make fast cars.everythingisawesome wrote: ↑06 Jan 2023, 11:45Same with Alpine.. It's just a brand name under General Motorsmwillems wrote: ↑05 Jan 2023, 23:54https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/64177632
Andretti in F1 is very exciting, I'll be pleased to see more teams on the grid and more spots for talented drivers.
But Cadillac... I didn't see that coming.
F1 always has a backmarker. They may be at the back for the first season but I expect they have the pedigree to move forward and we have to give them the opportunity rather than assume they will just get in the way, otherwise we'd never get a new team.jordanb wrote: ↑06 Jan 2023, 01:20What F1 don't need is more blue flags. Any non factory team is doomed to be midfield to backmarker. Most drivers that drive for these midfield or backmarkers never makes it to the sharp end of the grid. I don't know what value new teams bring to the table. Existing teams hate it as they are afraid of sharing their F1 earnings.
We have had poorly funded teams cone and go. Even the well funded teams like Toyota and Honda struggled to find success. The top 3 current teams have built infrastructure and talent depth over a very long period of time. Teams like Aston Martin have been investing heavily and poaching people,but are nowhere near being successful to reach the front.
I am very sceptical of these new teams that doesn't seem to have an Idea of the pain they have to go through and the beating the new brand is going to take. Teams that got successful in the last decade had key ingredients like Adrian Newey and Ross Brawn. I don't see that happening to other new teams and that seals the fate
It annoys me that TP use a reduction in revenue as a reason for not wanting an 11th team. Any new team has to pay $200million which is meant to be split between the rest of the teams. I don't know if its still the case, but don't new teams also have to wait 2 years before receiving a base payment of something like $60 millionmwillems wrote: ↑06 Jan 2023, 13:01F1 always has a backmarker. They may be at the back for the first season but I expect they have the pedigree to move forward and we have to give them the opportunity rather than assume they will just get in the way, otherwise we'd never get a new team.jordanb wrote: ↑06 Jan 2023, 01:20What F1 don't need is more blue flags. Any non factory team is doomed to be midfield to backmarker. Most drivers that drive for these midfield or backmarkers never makes it to the sharp end of the grid. I don't know what value new teams bring to the table. Existing teams hate it as they are afraid of sharing their F1 earnings.
We have had poorly funded teams cone and go. Even the well funded teams like Toyota and Honda struggled to find success. The top 3 current teams have built infrastructure and talent depth over a very long period of time. Teams like Aston Martin have been investing heavily and poaching people,but are nowhere near being successful to reach the front.
I am very sceptical of these new teams that doesn't seem to have an Idea of the pain they have to go through and the beating the new brand is going to take. Teams that got successful in the last decade had key ingredients like Adrian Newey and Ross Brawn. I don't see that happening to other new teams and that seals the fate
What might prove a talking point is how revenues are split between 11 teams and not 10.
https://the-race.com/formula-1/f1-shoul ... ms-horner/
Since when? They've released more performance models than BMW or Mercedes in the past 10-15 years if I am not mistaken. ATS-V, CTS-V, CT4-V, CT5-V, CT6-V... the list goes on and on. With both twin-turbo V6 manuals and V8 manuals too. I didn't say their cars were slow, just that they are not associated with speed. They are a luxury car brand with a history of being slow and I think that is the way most in the world see them. If they are putting Cadillac into F1 it is probably because they want to change that in the global market and push the brand.JordanMugen wrote: ↑06 Jan 2023, 19:38
If anything that is their problem -- they should have ignored the Cadillac engineer's desires to make unprofitable enthusiast cars, and spent development money on a full range of SUVs instead. (IIRC, Cadillac's SUV range is very limited compared to BMW or Mercedes, they have the compact XT4 and the "full-size" Escalade but then there is nothing in-between IIRC, unlike BMW or Mercedes' range of 7 or 8 SUV models including "SUV coupes".)
Teams have to start somewhere and tbh it's pretty easy for a successful team to slide down the F1 pecking order. McLaren if it hadn't righted the ship when it did would have been near the back of the grid. At the end of the day it's down to the FIA and Commercial Rights holder to sort out team entries and prize money.jordanb wrote: ↑06 Jan 2023, 01:20What F1 don't need is more blue flags. Any non factory team is doomed to be midfield to backmarker. Most drivers that drive for these midfield or backmarkers never makes it to the sharp end of the grid. I don't know what value new teams bring to the table. Existing teams hate it as they are afraid of sharing their F1 earnings.
That is the nature of F1, teams come and go. As for Aston Martin? It can take several years for investment and staff to pay off on the race track. McLaren is ahead in that process and we'll find out in the next couple of years if the decisions made at McLaren pay off or not.We have had poorly funded teams cone and go. Even the well funded teams like Toyota and Honda struggled to find success. The top 3 current teams have built infrastructure and talent depth over a very long period of time. Teams like Aston Martin have been investing heavily and poaching people,but are nowhere near being successful to reach the front.
Nothing is guaranteed in life or F1 for that matter. Either Andretti becomes successful or they don't. If they want to take on the challenge that is F1 then have at it. The more teams the better. Williams looks ripe for a takeover by a manufacturer that wants an easier entry into F1. The truth is F1 is becoming attractive again to big manufacturers and that shouldn't be scoffed at.I am very sceptical of these new teams that doesn't seem to have an Idea of the pain they have to go through and the beating the new brand is going to take. Teams that got successful in the last decade had key ingredients like Adrian Newey and Ross Brawn. I don't see that happening to other new teams and that seals the fate
