Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
Wiser ones stay quiet and write a cheque for the cause and let some one else lead the protest.
The stingy ones care who more about their money and popularity, make a few hollow gestures.
It's funny. The moment Max refused to kneel, making a statement against racism there was no issue in the Netherlands. They supported him to the fullest - Cryington should not force anyone with his statements blablabla.
HOWEVER, the moment a football player with Moroccan roots, player of the Dutch football team Feyenoord, refused to wear a rainbow patch on his arm he got blasted by the Dutch and Dutch media. No, this time the Dutch/media had again found something against the minorities.
Totally agree about the sentiments against woke agenda polluting all corners of our lives.
The only issue I see with this is the case of Hamilton.
You may hate the guy, but my god man, the --- that was seen live on TV against him was ridiculous. We live in the most caring, accepting and least racist countries in the world here in Europe, so we don't need the message, all the other countries need to do better. But Hamilton had that entire series of events allowed by the FIA and formula 1 as a whole.
I feel like this is f1 trying to make it impossible for anyone to criticise them, they should be criticised at every turn due to fixing races, pathetic decision that remove the sport from f1 and what was allowed to happen from Alonso fans those years ago.
Just my 2 cents, Hamilton did actually have something to 'cry' about.
You’re right of course. They should just shut up and accept their millions. Screw the little guy, he can fight his own battles
They might be hypocritical by earning millions but if they weren’t earning those millions they’d be the guy(s) without a voice.
Wait... they´re not accepting their millions now?. Or the little guy is not fighting his own battles?
THAT is the problem, a claim by a millionaire who doesn´t even know how unfair is what he´s protesting about, solves nothing, looks hypocritical, and comes from someone who could actually do something real with his millions, sponsors and followers, instead of simply wearing a t-shirt in front of a camera. That only solves his daily upvotes on some social net
Sorry if i'm getting the wrong end of the stick here, but are you suggesting that the vocal F1 drivers (Hamilton / Vettel) just wear t-shirts and don't back it up with action or money?
Being a hypocrit doesn't mean that what they are saying is wrong.
I'm not going to say I support everything he says but this quote from Russell Brand is pretty relevant:
When I was poor and I complained about inequality people said I was bitter, now I'm rich and I complain about inequality they say I'm a hypocrite. I'm beginning to think they just don't want inequality on the agenda because it is a real problem that needs to be addressed
You’re right of course. They should just shut up and accept their millions. Screw the little guy, he can fight his own battles
They might be hypocritical by earning millions but if they weren’t earning those millions they’d be the guy(s) without a voice.
Wait... they´re not accepting their millions now?. Or the little guy is not fighting his own battles?
THAT is the problem, a claim by a millionaire who doesn´t even know how unfair is what he´s protesting about, solves nothing, looks hypocritical, and comes from someone who could actually do something real with his millions, sponsors and followers, instead of simply wearing a t-shirt in front of a camera. That only solves his daily upvotes on some social net
Sorry if i'm getting the wrong end of the stick here, but are you suggesting that the vocal F1 drivers (Hamilton / Vettel) just wear t-shirts and don't back it up with action or money?
Being a hypocrit doesn't mean that what they are saying is wrong.
I'm not going to say I support everything he says but this quote from Russell Brand is pretty relevant:
When I was poor and I complained about inequality people said I was bitter, now I'm rich and I complain about inequality they say I'm a hypocrite. I'm beginning to think they just don't want inequality on the agenda because it is a real problem that needs to be addressed
Interesting point Luke about Russell Brand, it reminds me of the outcry against that very brave little girl Greta Thunberg by a clear demographic of mainly men and mainly well off older men, what gives?
Do "people" simply not like being called out, we all know its not us the individual but the collective whether it is a generation or a profession or whatever, but we are also guilty even if by default and apathy.
Nobody likes to be told they are wrong.
I think this particular discussion about people who are voicing their view is similar.
And nearly all of us voice our opinion at the pub or in here or at some suffering spouse
…
And nearly all of us voice our opinion at the pub or in here or at some suffering spouse
But crucially, not at work, not in certain ways. And specially not in a meeting with a customer or a supplier.
So, it partly boils down to whether being a F1 driver is a job? And if yes… who is your employer?
Of course the answer to that is messy.
BTW, is this thing only for F1 drivers or for all personnel at races? Would it apply equally to Newey? Or to the left front wheel gun mechanic?
A lot of people voice their opinion at work, we used to call them cribroom cowboys
But of course I agree with you regarding clients, customers and the like (we have to agree on something )
Again differentiate between contractors and employees, drivers (which I thought we were discussing) are contracted and it will be in the terms of the contract. I would be surprised if there would be exclusion of expression and most probably there would be referral to each parties legal advisors with an agreed arbiter if the lawyers cannot agree or compromise.
…
And nearly all of us voice our opinion at the pub or in here or at some suffering spouse
But crucially, not at work, not in certain ways. And specially not in a meeting with a customer or a supplier.
So, it partly boils down to whether being a F1 driver is a job? And if yes… who is your employer?
Of course the answer to that is messy.
BTW, is this thing only for F1 drivers or for all personnel at races? Would it apply equally to Newey? Or to the left front wheel gun mechanic?
Yes and no.
I think the difference is the drivers in particular are put on a very public stage in front of the whole world and some, more than others, feel they have a responsibility/ opportunity to use that platform to bring attention to causes that are particularly important to them.
We all want to do what we can to support our causes, for some that is working volunteer days, others may donate money, others use the connections and opportunities they get through their employment (or worldwide fame) to progress initiatives.
I dont think this is something we can blame a few diva drivers for, we're seeing it across major sporting events from a wide range of athletes / competitors.
As much as we try to pretend it isn't major sporting events are political in nature. They are often funded or subsidised by the host nation and drive major attention and investment into their locale for the duration of the event. There are always going to be those that question whether it is right to make the investment / reward / celebration in a country that has particular moral, ethical or human rights issues.
Obviously the host nation would rather this issues aren't highlighted so no doubt they are pressuring F1 to get a hold on it.
So far, most of whet the drivers have fronted are things the majority are in favour of, but what if is something not so popular?
For example, if Mazipan had retained his seat and taken a pro Russian stance? Imagine the conflicts if a driver took an anti Vax stand or pro/anti abortion, drugs, religions etc?
If there is a precedent, it is a precedent either way.
When arguing with a fool, be sure the other person is not doing the same thing.
Here is a high profile person from another industry, films, where they are contracted.
The actress Natalie Portman and her amazing activism which by the way does some good whereas without the right kind of activism the world would be more primitive.
"Activism:
Portman, who is an advocate for animal rights, became a vegetarian at age eight, a decision which came after she witnessed a demonstration of laser surgery on a chicken while attending a medical conference with her father.[178][179] She became a vegan in 2009 after reading Jonathan Safran Foer's Eating Animals and later produced a documentary on factory farming systems in the U.S. by the same title.[180][181] In September 2017, she was recognized for her work on the film by the Environmental Media Association Awards with the Ongoing Commitment Award.[182] She does not wear animal products and has praised animal-friendly products designed by Stella McCartney and Target. In 2007, she launched her own brand of animal-friendly footwear.[183] In 2007, Portman traveled to Rwanda with Jack Hanna, to film the documentary, Gorillas on the Brink.[184] Portman has been an advocate of environmental causes since childhood, when she joined an environmental song and dance troupe known as World Patrol Kids.
Portman has also supported anti-poverty causes. In 2004 and 2005, she traveled to Uganda, Guatemala, and Ecuador as the Ambassador of Hope for FINCA International, an organization that promotes micro-lending to help finance women-owned businesses in developing countries.[186] In an interview appearing on the PBS program Foreign Exchange with Fareed Zakaria, she discussed microfinance. Host Fareed Zakaria said that he was "generally wary of celebrities with fashionable causes", but included the segment with Portman because "she really knew her stuff".[187] On This Week with George Stephanopoulos in April 2007, Portman discussed her work with FINCA and how it can benefit women and children in Third World countries.[188] In fall-2007, she visited several university campuses, including Harvard, USC, UCLA, UC Berkeley, Stanford, Princeton, New York University, and Columbia, to inspire students with the power of microfinance and to encourage them to join the Village Banking Campaign to help families and communities lift themselves out of poverty.
Portman is a supporter of the Democratic Party, and for the 2004 presidential election she campaigned for Senator John Kerry.[190][191] Prior to the 2008 presidential election, she supported Senator Hillary Clinton of New York in the Democratic primaries. Portman later campaigned for Senator Barack Obama of Illinois. In a 2008 interview, she also stated: "I even like John McCain. I disagree with his war stance – which is a really big deal – but I think he's a very moral person."[192] In 2010, her activist work and popularity with young people earned her a nomination for VH1's Do Something Awards, which is dedicated to honoring individuals who do good.[193] In 2011, Portman and her then-fiancé Benjamin Millepied were among the signers of a petition to President Obama in support of same-sex marriage.[194] She supported Obama's re-election campaign in 2012.[195]
In 2009, Portman signed a petition that defended Roman Polanski, who was charged with drugging and raping a thirteen-year-old girl in 1977, and has been a fugitive for decades.[196][197][198] In February 2018, she expressed regret over signing the petition.[199]
In January 2011, Portman was appointed an ambassador of WE Charity (formerly known as Free The Children), an international charity and educational partner, spearheading their Power of a Girl campaign.[200] She hosted a contest challenging girls in North America to fundraise for one of WE Charity's all-girl schools in Kenya. As incentives for the contest winner, Portman offered the designer Rodarte dress she wore to the premiere of Black Swan, along with tickets to her next film premiere.[200] It was announced in May 2012 that Portman would be working with watch designer Richard Mille to develop a limited-edition timepiece with proceeds supporting WE Charity.[201] During WE Day California 2019 Portman gave a pro vegan speech in front of the student audience, linking vegan lifestyle and feminism.[202][203] In December 2019, she visited Kenya a second time with WE Charity and spoke with young girls determined to improve their lives through access to education.
In 2006, Portman served as a guest lecturer at Columbia University for a course in terrorism and counterterrorism, where she spoke about her film V for Vendetta.[205] In February 2015, Portman was among other alumni of Harvard University including Robert F. Kennedy Jr., Darren Aronofsky and Susan Faludi who wrote an open letter to the school demanding it divest its $35,900,000,000 endowment from coal, gas, and oil companies.[206] Later that year in May, she spoke at the annual Harvard Class Day to the graduating class of 2015.[207]
At Harvard, Portman wrote a letter to The Harvard Crimson in response to an essay critical of Israeli actions toward Palestinians.[208] She has nevertheless criticized the Israeli government, specifically Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. Portman was critical of Netanyahu's re-election in 2015, saying she was "disappointed" and often found his comments racist.[209] In November 2017, Portman was announced as the Genesis Prize recipient for 2018, which includes $2,000,000 in prize money.[210][209] The following April, Portman announced that she did not plan to attend the awards ceremony scheduled for June, citing "recent events in Israel" that left her feeling uncomfortable attending public events there.[211] The ceremony was canceled.[211] Portman further clarified that she was not boycotting Israel, explaining that she did not want to "appear as endorsing" Netanyahu, who was to give a speech at the ceremony.[212] She is also a member of the One Voice movement.[213]
In January 2018, she donated $50,000 to the Time's Up initiative.[214] Portman took part in the 2018 Women's March in Los Angeles, where she spoke about the "sexual terrorism" she experienced at age thirteen after the release of her film Léon: The Professional. She told the crowd, "I understood very quickly, even as a 13-year-old, that if I were to express myself sexually I would feel unsafe and that men would feel entitled to discuss and objectify my body to my great discomfort."[215] She drew attention to the MeToo movement, revealing that her first fan letter was a "rape fantasy" from a man and that her local radio station created a countdown until her eighteenth birthday (when she would reach legal age to consent to have intercourse).[215]
In 2020, Portman endorsed the "defund the police" movement.[216] In 2020, Portman collaborated with JusticeLA to create a public service announcement #SuingToSaveLives about the health of people in L.A. County jails amid the COVID-19 pandemic.[217][218] Later in 2020, Portman was announced as one of the co-founders and investors in an almost all-female group that was awarded a new franchise in the National Women's Soccer League, the top level of the women's sport in the U.S. The new team, since unveiled as Angel City FC, began play in the 2022 NWSL season."
News out that F1 plans to implement rules that make prior approval necessary before a political statement is made by drivers. Didn't work out well for FIFA so not sure it will work for F1. Not entirely sure it is needed and whether drivers should cooperate.
I think they learned how to handle this from the Qatar world cup. Thanks to social media, it is possible to have an apolitical sport and send your message without using the sport's official platform to do it.
Notice the leaders in F1 (From Dom to ZB) are against the FIA directive or whatever it is called. For the sake of the business, the show, attracting viewers, sponsors, innovation, variety, fun, entertainment, media coverage....it is a bad rule and they don't want to be policed by the FIA.
If you take objection to whatever sociopolitical issues or otherwise along side sports...fair enough, that is how you feel...but you're on the losing end of the stick.
