2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

[Lucky]

[diffuser]

What makes you say money will not be an issue?

Haas have a new title sponsor which they confirmed will allow them to run up to the budget cap

Haas don’t even have a simulator and the few simulator test they do (which is very few according to Resta) are done using Ferrari’s old, outdated, sim (Ferrari built a new one that they use, but not Haas).

Haas May start well, but they really don’t have the staffing and know how to defeat Mclaren over a season. We can Atleast credit Mclaren that much!

If Mclaren are struggling to defeat Haas by season end, there will been much bigger issues.

I've said that Haas working out of Ferrari's infrastructure, with former Ferrari employees, and working side by side with Ferraris employees may come to a head one day.

With Haas it's gonna depend on how strong Ferrari is. If Ferrari is strong, Haas that use alot of Ferrari's parts, will compete for best of the rest. Remember part of Haas's 2022 fade was Ferrari reliability. They may still finish 8th but they will be in the mix more often.

Also note that if McLaren get stiff competition from Alpine and Auston, they'll be splitting top best of the rest points by three and therefore finding it more difficult to distance themselves from Haas.

[the EDGE]

http://ipic.su/img/img7/fs/20230113_125 ... 611530.jpg

Wow... That really is some fact! We know Lando is good, but that really drives home just how good, especially given the fact that he's never had a dominant car

Its no wonder team bosses & the media keep singling him out as a top driver

[the EDGE]

I've said that Haas working out of Ferrari's infrastructure, with former Ferrari employees, and working side by side with Ferrari's employees may come to a head one day.

With Haas it's gonna depend on how strong Ferrari is. If Ferrari is strong, Haas that use a lot of Ferrari's parts, will compete for best of the rest. Remember part of Haas's 2022 fade was Ferrari reliability. They may still finish 8th but they will be in the mix more often.

Also note that if McLaren get stiff competition from Alpine and Aston, they'll be splitting top best of the rest points by three and therefore finding it more difficult to distance themselves from Haas.

That's great in theory... but we've seen time & time again, sharing parts does not work. Aston failed, using Mercedes parts, even when they copied the rest of the car they were still far behind the top 3, Williams using Mercedes parts have been no where, AT using RB parts has failed, so much, that now if my memory is correct they are going to design in-house again, and in fact, Haas has used Ferrari parts for a long time now, and been nowhere. The only time Haas has shined was a) only in comparison to the midfield and b) more to do with the failure of other teams, rather than Haas's success

Sure, having Simone Resta in place has got to be a bonus, but remember the FIA are now hot on IP crossover, they simply cant have a white Ferrari, anymore, they have to design independently, and yes, there maybe other Ferrari staff involved, but its not as if they work alternate weeks for both teams, Ferrari, let alone the rules, would not allow that, Ferrari's best staff will be working relentlessly designing their own car, not someone else's. This means Haas has to build & develop its own team, and find its own path, just like every other team. And that will take time, the same as its going to for Aston & Alpine too

As for McLaren fighting with Alpine & Aston, and thus taking points away from them in comparison to Haas, well that doesn't really stand up, as that would also take points away from Aston & Alpine too in the same way, and also lock Haas out of point scoring positions as with those 3, and the top 3 teams, that's 12 drivers & only 10 points finishing positions

Given time, its true any team could move into a top team position, I mean, that's exactly what we are expecting from the budget cap area, for all teams to be competitive, with the drivers making the difference... but I wouldn't expect anything to change soon, and would expect McLaren to be 'at least' as likely to do this as any other team on the grid

[diffuser]

I've said that Haas working out of Ferrari's infrastructure, with former Ferrari employees, and working side by side with Ferrari's employees may come to a head one day.

With Haas it's gonna depend on how strong Ferrari is. If Ferrari is strong, Haas that use a lot of Ferrari's parts, will compete for best of the rest. Remember part of Haas's 2022 fade was Ferrari reliability. They may still finish 8th but they will be in the mix more often.

Also note that if McLaren get stiff competition from Alpine and Aston, they'll be splitting top best of the rest points by three and therefore finding it more difficult to distance themselves from Haas.

That's great in theory... but we've seen time & time again, sharing parts does not work. Aston failed, using Mercedes parts, even when they copied the rest of the car they were still far behind the top 3, Williams using Mercedes parts have been no where, AT using RB parts has failed, so much, that now if my memory is correct they are going to design in-house again, and in fact, Haas has used Ferrari parts for a long time now, and been nowhere. The only time Haas has shined was a) only in comparison to the midfield and b) more to do with the failure of other teams, rather than Haas's success

Sure, having Simone Resta in place has got to be a bonus, but remember the FIA are now hot on IP crossover, they simply cant have a white Ferrari, anymore, they have to design independently, and yes, there maybe other Ferrari staff involved, but its not as if they work alternate weeks for both teams, Ferrari, let alone the rules, would not allow that, Ferrari's best staff will be working relentlessly designing their own car, not someone else's. This means Haas has to build & develop its own team, and find its own path, just like every other team. And that will take time, the same as its going to for Aston & Alpine too

As for McLaren fighting with Alpine & Aston, and thus taking points away from them in comparison to Haas, well that doesn't really stand up, as that would also take points away from Aston & Alpine too in the same way, and also lock Haas out of point scoring positions as with those 3, and the top 3 teams, that's 12 drivers & only 10 points finishing positions

Given time, its true any team could move into a top team position, I mean, that's exactly what we are expecting from the budget cap area, for all teams to be competitive, with the drivers making the difference... but I wouldn't expect anything to change soon, and would expect McLaren to be 'at least' as likely to do this as any other team on the grid

The rules changed since then. Significant changes since then:
1 - You can buy current year parts.
2 - Must design all your own aero designed parts.

I maintain that there is some kind of spill over in design with Ferrari cause all thier teams showed up with similliar aero in last years winter tests. Specifically Haas's aero in 2022 was very close to Ferrari.


If you're calculating odds(an approach I like, I like to think of this as more or less probable)..... a rookie like Oscar is gonna hurt McLaren's odds, while a Driver like the Hulk is gonna better Haas's odds. Haas running out of money last year, so they couldn't produce upgraded parts, means they started working on the 2023 car early increases thier odds. Haas has a ton more wind tunnel time and use Ferrari's wind tunnel that is state of the art. There are many items that increase Haas's odds of having a good year. Wether they execute or not is another story.

[the EDGE]

I've said that Haas working out of Ferrari's infrastructure, with former Ferrari employees, and working side by side with Ferrari's employees may come to a head one day.

With Haas it's gonna depend on how strong Ferrari is. If Ferrari is strong, Haas that use a lot of Ferrari's parts, will compete for best of the rest. Remember part of Haas's 2022 fade was Ferrari reliability. They may still finish 8th but they will be in the mix more often.

Also note that if McLaren get stiff competition from Alpine and Aston, they'll be splitting top best of the rest points by three and therefore finding it more difficult to distance themselves from Haas.

That's great in theory... but we've seen time & time again, sharing parts does not work. Aston failed, using Mercedes parts, even when they copied the rest of the car they were still far behind the top 3, Williams using Mercedes parts have been no where, AT using RB parts has failed, so much, that now if my memory is correct they are going to design in-house again, and in fact, Haas has used Ferrari parts for a long time now, and been nowhere. The only time Haas has shined was a) only in comparison to the midfield and b) more to do with the failure of other teams, rather than Haas's success

Sure, having Simone Resta in place has got to be a bonus, but remember the FIA are now hot on IP crossover, they simply cant have a white Ferrari, anymore, they have to design independently, and yes, there maybe other Ferrari staff involved, but its not as if they work alternate weeks for both teams, Ferrari, let alone the rules, would not allow that, Ferrari's best staff will be working relentlessly designing their own car, not someone else's. This means Haas has to build & develop its own team, and find its own path, just like every other team. And that will take time, the same as its going to for Aston & Alpine too

As for McLaren fighting with Alpine & Aston, and thus taking points away from them in comparison to Haas, well that doesn't really stand up, as that would also take points away from Aston & Alpine too in the same way, and also lock Haas out of point scoring positions as with those 3, and the top 3 teams, that's 12 drivers & only 10 points finishing positions

Given time, its true any team could move into a top team position, I mean, that's exactly what we are expecting from the budget cap area, for all teams to be competitive, with the drivers making the difference... but I wouldn't expect anything to change soon, and would expect McLaren to be 'at least' as likely to do this as any other team on the grid

The rules changed since then. Significant changes since then:
1 - You can buy current year parts.
2 - Must design all your own aero designed parts.

I maintain that there is some kind of spill over in design with Ferrari cause all thier teams showed up with similliar aero in last years winter tests. Specifically Haas's aero in 2022 was very close to Ferrari.


If you're calculating odds(an approach I like, I like to think of this as more or less probable)..... a rookie like Oscar is gonna hurt McLaren's odds, while a Driver like the Hulk is gonna better Haas's odds. Haas running out of money last year, so they couldn't produce upgraded parts, means they started working on the 2023 car early increases thier odds. Haas has a ton more wind tunnel time and use Ferrari's wind tunnel that is state of the art. There are many items that increase Haas's odds of having a good year. Wether they execute or not is another story.

The rules have never stated teams could only sell previous years parts, some teams just decided to do it that way

[ScottR267]

Appreciate Gulf and McLaren confirmed end of their sponsorship, however where do we reckon they could be off too?

[AR3-GP]

http://ipic.su/img/img7/fs/20230113_125 ... 611530.jpg

Wow... That really is some fact! We know Lando is good, but that really drives home just how good, especially given the fact that he's never had a dominant car

Its no wonder team bosses & the media keep singling him out as a top driver

This is very impressive.

[AR3-GP]

Appreciate Gulf and McLaren confirmed end of their sponsorship, however where do we reckon they could be off too?

Williams?

[ScottR267]

Appreciate Gulf and McLaren confirmed end of their sponsorship, however where do we reckon they could be off too?

Williams?

Was my thoughts too!

[CjC]

You are kidding right?

Gulf are staying on the grid with a another team and what looks like could be a closer collaboration!

It certainly hasn’t been a good winter for Mclaren so far

Could be an Audi/ Sauber tie up- could be the start of many Seidls coups

[SilviuAgo]

Appreciate Gulf and McLaren confirmed end of their sponsorship, however where do we reckon they could be off too?

I know Williams said new sponsor will be in place but still hope Zak managed to sign another McLaren - Gulf iconic partnership.

Today was anounced McLaren Automotive-Gulf collaboration...so why not Gulf to stay wirh McLaren?

https://uaenews247.com/2023/01/13/mclar ... -for-2023/

Remember that same was with Coca Cola, deal finished by 2020 but still continued also for 2021 if I'm right.

UPDATE: In the end seems Gulf is new main sponsor of Williams

[ScottR267]

Appreciate Gulf and McLaren confirmed end of their sponsorship, however where do we reckon they could be off too?

I know Williams said new sponsor will be in place but still hope Zak managed to sign another McLaren - Gulf iconic partnership.

Today was anounced McLaren Automotive-Gulf collaboration...so why not Gulf to stay wirh McLaren?

https://uaenews247.com/2023/01/13/mclar ... -for-2023/

Remember that same was with Coca Cola, deal finished by 2020 but still continued also for 2021 if I'm right.

I’ve not seen anything from Williams confirming a new sponsor, albeit given their loss of sponsors you’d suspect they’d have some new ones lined up.

I doubt it is McLaren they are resigning with as both McLaren and Gulf put posts out there which seemed pretty conclusive albeit stranger things have happened….

[AR3-GP]

It wouldn't be a surprise is Gulf went to Williams. The Mclaren car is too cluttered. Too many brands. No identity like ferrari and PMI, Mercedes and Petronas. Williams probably offered them much more space for the same price.

[trinidefender]

The car in the shadow is an outline of an old McLaren if that counts for anything.