Mercedes W14 Speculation Thread

[chrisc90]

I personally cannot see anyone from Mercedes coming out and saying exactly what they got wrong, at this moment in time.

When the car rolls out for FP1 in Bahrain, then the answers will come out. Either they are telling the truth about the zero pod concept or its all smoke and mirrors. We will find out in 7weeks time in Bahrain.

He's saying about the front wing and how it forms a huge part of how the air flows over the car. Truth. But they knew their outwashing FW of 2022 would be banned for the 2023 season. But yet they were still bringing upgrades, some against the spirit of the regs, to the US GP with those outwashing flap supports/deflectors. Surely those last few races would have been better off testing a design/concept for 2023 to see how the air moves over the zero-pods? (if of course they follow the zero pod concept for 23)

[Venturiation]

I personally cannot see anyone from Mercedes coming out and saying exactly what they got wrong, at this moment in time.

When the car rolls out for FP1 in Bahrain, then the answers will come out. Either they are telling the truth about the zero pod concept or its all smoke and mirrors. We will find out in 7weeks time in Bahrain.

He's saying about the front wing and how it forms a huge part of how the air flows over the car. Truth. But they knew their outwashing FW of 2022 would be banned for the 2023 season. But yet they were still bringing upgrades, some against the spirit of the regs, to the US GP with those outwashing flap supports/deflectors. Surely those last few races would have been better off testing a design/concept for 2023 to see how the air moves over the zero-pods? (if of course they follow the zero pod concept for 23)

Some say that they brought that first wing on purpose so the fia can clarify the rules and to be sure that no else uses it

For the sidepods they will still be small compared to ther cars but if course if there is some changes to be made to make them even better they will, I’m sure they will not look exactly like 2022

But as i say people focus too much on sidepods, thinking that switching to Redbull sidepods everything will be fixed

What they got wrong is wanting to run the car so low with accounting for bouncing( not porpoising that has been fixed in spain)

So they will have for sure new rear suspension and gearbox changes to accommodate it

[Vanja #66]

Mike elliot did say in the interview that the exposed floor doesn’t change much same for the sidepods, people are focusing too much on that

I've read their interviews. He pretty much confirmed in the first answer that it was a problem. They said they solved it, but they still had bouncing in Abu Dhabi. That's not solved. Also, having reduced the floor downforce with Barca floor they've taken a step to solve it as well - by reducing the load - so that's kind of a solution. Of course they've done what they could to stiffen it, but they still have the most flexible floor geometry around diffuser due to its exposed length.

[Venturiation]

Mike elliot did say in the interview that the exposed floor doesn’t change much same for the sidepods, people are focusing too much on that

I've read their interviews. He pretty much confirmed in the first answer that it was a problem. They said they solved it, but they still had bouncing in Abu Dhabi. That's not solved. Also, having reduced the floor downforce with Barca floor they've taken a step to solve it as well - by reducing the load - so that's kind of a solution. Of course they've done what they could to stiffen it, but they still have the most flexible floor geometry around diffuser due to its exposed length.

I think that meant fixed for the W14 not the W13
And in this article i found on reddit he says that the new regulations helps with the exposed floor
In late summer 2022, the World Motor Sport Council confirmed there would be alterations to the 2023 technical regulations, citing driver safety as the main reason for the adjustments. These changes included raising the floor edges by 15mm and raising the diffuser throat height. The diffuser edge’s stiffness would also increase, and a mandated sensor to monitor porpoising more effectively.

As to how the rule changes for 2023 affect Mercedes’ performance, Elliott says, ‘The raised floor edges are probably the main thing that will affect the car aerodynamically, and this will influence performance. I think it will keep the floor edges off the ground in the high-speed sections, and I think that, generally, it will be helpful for most teams running the car really low.

https://www.racecar-engineering.com/art ... mg-f1-w13/

[Venturiation]

https://www.formu1a.uno/mercedes-w14-20 ... stravolto/

This says that they were producing bouncing to be able to simulate it


However, the aerodynamic hopping has been largely resolved and gradually understood more and more, considering that Lewis Hamilton used special parts designed even to induce bouncing in Abu Dhabi practice. Although the seven-time world champion claimed that the team still had porpoising problems, the reality is that Mercedes ended the season knowing how to generate it, how to stop it and above all how to simulate it using the highly sophisticated tools present in the factory.

[AR3-GP]

You have to take interviews with people who have a vested interest in blowing smoke up their own rear or protecting the image of a brand with a grain of salt. The F1 engineer, nevermind chief engineer, is a very specific type of individual. The kind of person who believes he/she is smarter than everyone else in the paddock. Mercedes thought they were the slickest pony at the horse show with the self professed "loophole" car. Hamilton said his team cannot make mistake. The engineers smugly tested a completely different car in Barcelona to the one they ran in Bahrain to hide their supposed "genius" creation which was "1 second faster" than the Barcelona specification. It didn't work out at all.

If 2022 was a lesson to anyone, it's not to trust anyone and let the performance on the track do the talking. No one "understands" anything, until they are winning. Everything else is just hot air and damage control.

So I'm more circumspect than others about the W14. Every team says they "understand" and they "right the wrongs" but only 1 team wins every year.

[jordanb]

https://www.formu1a.uno/mercedes-w14-20 ... stravolto/

This says that they were producing bouncing to be able to simulate it


However, the aerodynamic hopping has been largely resolved and gradually understood more and more, considering that Lewis Hamilton used special parts designed even to induce bouncing in Abu Dhabi practice. Although the seven-time world champion claimed that the team still had porpoising problems, the reality is that Mercedes ended the season knowing how to generate it, how to stop it and above all how to simulate it using the highly sophisticated tools present in the factory.

They said early in the season that they understand how to control it, which also means they know how to induce and reduce it, albeit at the cost of performance. If they continue to experiment it at Abu Dhabi, it means they still don't fully understand the phenomenon and are experimenting, even if means they have gotten better in reducing performance loss. Unless there are still question marks, there is no reason to simulate the phenomenon.

[Venturiation]

You have to take interviews with people who have a vested interest in blowing smoke up their own rear or protecting the image of a brand with a grain of salt. The F1 engineer, nevermind chief engineer, is a very specific type of individual. The kind of person who believes he/she is smarter than everyone else in the paddock. Mercedes thought they were the slickest pony at the horse show with the self professed "loophole" car. Hamilton said his team cannot make mistake. The engineers smugly tested a completely different car in Barcelona to the one they ran in Bahrain to hide their supposed "genius" creation which was "1 second faster" than the Barcelona specification. It didn't work out at all.

If 2022 was a lesson to anyone, it's not to trust anyone and let the performance on the track do the talking. No one "understands" anything, until they are winning. Everything else is just hot air and damage control.

So I'm more circumspect than others about the W14. Every team says they "understand" and they "right the wrongs" but only 1 team wins every year.

When hamilton said my team doesn’t make mistakes he already knew that the car was and had very bad bouncing
From their interviews over the years the are pretty open about issues they had of course they are not going to spill everything but it’s the team that is the more open to talk about it

They did say that since the shakedown in silverstone they knew there was a problem and they didn’t to just fix it

They wanted to improve their tools so it doesn’t happen again

If you have porpoising and fix it, but by introducing another upgrade if it comes bavk you are at square 1 again

[atanatizante]

There is no cited source for any of the information in that article so I wouldn't worry about it.

Most said the same thing about the zero sidepods and 1 second faster in the wind tunnel rumors that turned out to be true
Could there be someone leaking info from inside?

If you watch the interview for the 2022 review season the chief of HPP also talks about improving the 2023 engine with fuel by petonas

I would have to assume you misheard because the regulations do not permit changes to the fuel. I'm really quite unsure why this rumor keeps coming up.

Perhaps Mercedes will be protested at each GP that they use their new fuel.

I`ve read that Merc was convincing FIA that the 2022 fuel with 10% bioethanol increased engine knocking and vibration thus increasing W13`s bouncing and porpoising. And they have proof from both the works team and customer teams throughout all 2022 races and practices. Now they have to convince the other manufacturers that they need to bring a new fuel for both engine and car/chassis reliability reasons ...

[chrisc90]

Most said the same thing about the zero sidepods and 1 second faster in the wind tunnel rumors that turned out to be true
Could there be someone leaking info from inside?

If you watch the interview for the 2022 review season the chief of HPP also talks about improving the 2023 engine with fuel by petonas

I would have to assume you misheard because the regulations do not permit changes to the fuel. I'm really quite unsure why this rumor keeps coming up.

Perhaps Mercedes will be protested at each GP that they use their new fuel.

I`ve read that Merc was convincing FIA that the 2022 fuel with 10% bioethanol increased engine knocking and vibration thus increasing W13`s bouncing and porpoising. And they have proof from both the works team and customer teams throughout all 2022 races and practices. Now they have to convince the other manufacturers that they need to bring a new fuel for both engine and car/chassis reliability reasons ...

If thats true its the funniest thing ive read in 2023 so far!

[AR3-GP]

Most said the same thing about the zero sidepods and 1 second faster in the wind tunnel rumors that turned out to be true
Could there be someone leaking info from inside?

If you watch the interview for the 2022 review season the chief of HPP also talks about improving the 2023 engine with fuel by petonas

I would have to assume you misheard because the regulations do not permit changes to the fuel. I'm really quite unsure why this rumor keeps coming up.

Perhaps Mercedes will be protested at each GP that they use their new fuel.

I`ve read that Merc was convincing FIA that the 2022 fuel with 10% bioethanol increased engine knocking and vibration thus increasing W13`s bouncing and porpoising. And they have proof from both the works team and customer teams throughout all 2022 races and practices. Now they have to convince the other manufacturers that they need to bring a new fuel for both engine and car/chassis reliability reasons ...

That would be the biggest bs sell in Formula One’s history.

[Venturiation]

Most said the same thing about the zero sidepods and 1 second faster in the wind tunnel rumors that turned out to be true
Could there be someone leaking info from inside?

If you watch the interview for the 2022 review season the chief of HPP also talks about improving the 2023 engine with fuel by petonas

I would have to assume you misheard because the regulations do not permit changes to the fuel. I'm really quite unsure why this rumor keeps coming up.

Perhaps Mercedes will be protested at each GP that they use their new fuel.

I`ve read that Merc was convincing FIA that the 2022 fuel with 10% bioethanol increased engine knocking and vibration thus increasing W13`s bouncing and porpoising. And they have proof from both the works team and customer teams throughout all 2022 races and practices. Now they have to convince the other manufacturers that they need to bring a new fuel for both engine and car/chassis reliability reasons ...

The rumors also said that active suspensions is the only solution to make the fuel flow more environment friendly and zero carbon print

[Holm86]

I would have to assume you misheard because the regulations do not permit changes to the fuel. I'm really quite unsure why this rumor keeps coming up.

Perhaps Mercedes will be protested at each GP that they use their new fuel.

I`ve read that Merc was convincing FIA that the 2022 fuel with 10% bioethanol increased engine knocking and vibration thus increasing W13`s bouncing and porpoising. And they have proof from both the works team and customer teams throughout all 2022 races and practices. Now they have to convince the other manufacturers that they need to bring a new fuel for both engine and car/chassis reliability reasons ...

If thats true its the funniest thing ive read in 2023 so far!

I've only heard Mercedes say that porpoising was stressing the engine, which makes sense.
Ethanol has higher knock resistance than regular fuel, so increasing ethanol content should also increase knock does not make sense

[Venturiation]

I`ve read that Merc was convincing FIA that the 2022 fuel with 10% bioethanol increased engine knocking and vibration thus increasing W13`s bouncing and porpoising. And they have proof from both the works team and customer teams throughout all 2022 races and practices. Now they have to convince the other manufacturers that they need to bring a new fuel for both engine and car/chassis reliability reasons ...

If thats true its the funniest thing ive read in 2023 so far!

I've only heard Mercedes say that porpoising was stressing the engine, which makes sense.
Ethanol has higher knock resistance than regular fuel, so increasing ethanol content should also increase knock does not make sense

I think it was just a joke

[organic]

Quite possible that this is old pics/footage of the W13 monocoque? Seems very similar and surely they wouldn't be leaking W14 info at this point