Mercedes W14 Speculation Thread

[organic]

This article suggests Mercedes will go away from the "Zeropod"-Philosophy.

Clearly, the nascent creature whose authorship will once again be attributed to Mike Elliott will see modifications in other areas as well. The aerodynamic guise so peculiar could undergo a remodeling process devoted to a compromise between the "Zero pod" concept and the solutions adopted by the other stables. A "hybrid" that envisages decidedly wider bellies than those observed during the last championship as per the graphic comparison above.

"The target that the aerodynamicists of the Anglo-German franchise are chasing is to have bulkier bellies to better manage, by controlling it, the turbulent flow coming from the front wheels. The aim is to keep it at a proper distance from the car body to prevent it from adversely affecting the aerodynamics of the rear end."

Full article:

https://www.funoanalisitecnica.com/2023 ... e-gap.html

Didn't McLaren basically have a compromise between "zero" and wide sidepods at the beginning of the season? And they moved away from it quickly. Sure, not every aero concept translates like for like bla bla bla.. it just seems like the golden bullet for every team so far except Mercedes, no matter where they started, has been to adopt wide, outwashing sidepods.

[georgekyr]

There could be made gains (although small ones) from the PU in 2023 and beyond according to Renault's F1 engine chief Bruno Famin, coming out from the ancillaries &/auxiliaries/packaging sides and last but not least from the energy management due to allowance o have only one software version per year now :

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/why- ... /10421545/

....

One software version can have as many modes of operation. The teams can include in there modes that could become usable at later stages of improved reliability so just more upfront work not really a stopping factor.

[Blackout]

This article suggests Mercedes will go away from the "Zeropod"-Philosophy.

Clearly, the nascent creature whose authorship will once again be attributed to Mike Elliott will see modifications in other areas as well. The aerodynamic guise so peculiar could undergo a remodeling process devoted to a compromise between the "Zero pod" concept and the solutions adopted by the other stables. A "hybrid" that envisages decidedly wider bellies than those observed during the last championship as per the graphic comparison above.

"The target that the aerodynamicists of the Anglo-German franchise are chasing is to have bulkier bellies to better manage, by controlling it, the turbulent flow coming from the front wheels. The aim is to keep it at a proper distance from the car body to prevent it from adversely affecting the aerodynamics of the rear end."

Full article:

https://www.funoanalisitecnica.com/2023 ... e-gap.html

Didn't McLaren basically have a compromise between "zero" and wide sidepods at the beginning of the season? And they moved away from it quickly. Sure, not every aero concept translates like for like bla bla bla.. it just seems like the golden bullet for every team so far except Mercedes, no matter where they started, has been to adopt wide, outwashing sidepods.

Didnt another team whose name begins with M start with "zero" sidepods that where also wide and outwashy at the top but also at the bottom..?

[atanatizante]

This article suggests Mercedes will go away from the "Zeropod"-Philosophy.

Clearly, the nascent creature whose authorship will once again be attributed to Mike Elliott will see modifications in other areas as well. The aerodynamic guise so peculiar could undergo a remodeling process devoted to a compromise between the "Zero pod" concept and the solutions adopted by the other stables. A "hybrid" that envisages decidedly wider bellies than those observed during the last championship as per the graphic comparison above.

"The target that the aerodynamicists of the Anglo-German franchise are chasing is to have bulkier bellies to better manage, by controlling it, the turbulent flow coming from the front wheels. The aim is to keep it at a proper distance from the car body to prevent it from adversely affecting the aerodynamics of the rear end."

Full article:

https://www.funoanalisitecnica.com/2023 ... e-gap.html

Didn't McLaren basically have a compromise between "zero" and wide sidepods at the beginning of the season? And they moved away from it quickly. Sure, not every aero concept translates like for like bla bla bla.. it just seems like the golden bullet for every team so far except Mercedes, no matter where they started, has been to adopt wide, outwashing sidepods.

Didnt another team whose name begins with M start with "zero" sidepods that where also wide and outwashy at the top but also at the bottom..?
https://i.imgur.com/1MHojWR.jpg

Do you suggest that a large/classic sidepod air intake induces a higher drag penalty than a "zero" sidepod solution accompanied by a fully exposed rear tyre design?

Isn`t that exposed frontal area sidepod air intake bigger than the rear tyre area but it`s compensated by its aero shape which induces downwash front tyre wake and furthermore it`s travelling towards the coke bottle area this way diverting that frontal rear tyre exposure thus diminishing its drag?

[Vanja #66]

I think they will keep the zero pod idea, it does offer the highest total downforce.

Their highest downforce WT results came exclusively from the floor, sidepods had nothing to do with. The issue with bouncing even after Barca floor upgrade was due to excessive floor flapping, since zeropods left too much of it exposed.

Is it fair to say that downforce always creates drag, but drag is not always an indicator of downforce? Many say that those big, fat rear tires create a lot of drag in Mercedes' case.

Downforce does always induce drag (not by the same amount on different parts though) on an F1 car, since in the end the air goes up after the car, meaning there is a rearward projection of low pressure zones (eg. till 2022 diffuser comes after flat floor) - and this suction is what causes drag from the rear. Suction at the front creates thrust, obviously. And as you said - drag doesn't always mean downforce (eg tyres create lift, etc).

What teams are always chasing is efficient downforce, so the smallest drag penalty for overall downforce gained. It can happen that bigger changes can result with same drag for higher downforce, but this does not mean this extra downforce didn't create drag. It did, but in a better, more efficient way.

I don't know where things gets missed. The very reason why ground effect has been brought back, is to cut the drag that comes from aero surfaces. As floor downforce doesn't produce aerodynamic drag, any more than the floors of the past, just for being physical bodies moving through high speed air, they are way more efficient means to produce downforce. Mercedes was unable produce as much downforce from the floor as RB and Ferrari, which forced them to run the car closer to the ground, causing bouncing and a lot of their downforce came from larger rear wing. Those were the primary problems of Mercedes. If they have to get rid of drag, they must find better floor design to enhance the downforce produced by ground effect and then cut down rear wing dependency. It's a myth they had more downforce hence drag than other two. It's their weaker floor and stronger rear wing.

I get what you're trying to say, but almost everything you wrote is the opposite

2022+ gen cars generate more drag than previous gen cars, and so does their floor (the rest is mostly tyre drag). Rules changed because venturi tunnel floors can generate more downforce independent of wings compared to flat floor, since wings lose a lot of downforce when they follow another car, making overtakes very hard.

W13 was designed to run very close to the ground, as Elliot said several times. Their initial floor created too much downforce and this caused bouncing in all conditions. Raising the car hurt their tyre management until Barcelona, and they had to do it to reduce bouncing. Barcelona floor generated a lot less downforce (less than RB and Ferrari) and they compensated for that with larger RW, but not from the start. They still ran the car very low to enable the tyres to work in their window. This still caused bouncing throughout the season due to unpredictable flapping of the rear part of the floor.

This article suggests Mercedes will go away from the "Zeropod"-Philosophy.
***
https://www.funoanalisitecnica.com/2023 ... e-gap.html

This article didn't seem to mention any internal rumours or insider information, looks like they simply made a rendering based on their own expectations and made-up info? Or I missed something.

[jordanb]

I get what you're trying to say, but almost everything you wrote is the opposite

Come.on Vanja. Didn't you say W13 would have least drag of all cars after your CFD simulation post the launch of zero pods?

[f1jcw]

I get what you're trying to say, but almost everything you wrote is the opposite

Come.on Vanja. Didn't you say W13 would have least drag of all cars after your CFD simulation post the launch of zero pods?

I remember him post that the w13 had the most tyre drag.

[F1Krof]

I get what you're trying to say, but almost everything you wrote is the opposite

Come.on Vanja. Didn't you say W13 would have least drag of all cars after your CFD simulation post the launch of zero pods?

I'm fairly sure he said just the opposite.

[Sieper]

I think they will keep the zero pod idea, it does offer the highest total downforce.

“Their highest downforce WT results came exclusively from the floor, sidepods had nothing to do with. The issue with bouncing even after Barca floor upgrade was due to excessive floor flapping, since zeropods left too much of it exposed.”

Sorry messed up the quotes, but here my reaction:

I could see from your own Aeroflow charts that the W13 had the most airflow (pressure) still attached to the rear wing of the 3 major variants, no pod, hollow pod and slim pod.

[OO7]

This article didn't seem to mention any internal rumours or insider information, looks like they simply made a rendering based on their own expectations and made-up info? Or I missed something.

Yep.

[Vanja #66]

Sorry messed up the quotes, but here my reaction:

I could see from your own Aeroflow charts that the W13 had the most airflow (pressure) still attached to the rear wing of the 3 major variants, no pod, hollow pod and slim pod.

To be honest, I mentioned in the first post and several times later that we should only use those results (images) to make conclusions about general flow structures on and around sidepods - and still take it with a pinch of salt. Also, I didn't get to simulate actual zeropods and those are very different from launch-spec. Wings and bottom of the floor generate downforce and make the difference between cars, extra downforce from chassis and sidepods is never substantial.

[Venturiation]

#Gazzetta MERCEDES: Mercedes's work would focus on reducing internal mechanical friction, with non-invasive machining on the crankshaft bearings, crankshaft & connecting rods. A new lubricant formulation by Petronas would improve combustion efficiency. The gain is around 16hp.


I don’t believe this isn’t it against rules?
This is the same source that predicted perfectly the W13 spec b and the windtunnel info

[Blackout]

#Gazzetta MERCEDES: Mercedes's work would focus on reducing internal mechanical friction, with non-invasive machining on the crankshaft bearings, crankshaft & connecting rods. A new lubricant formulation by Petronas would improve combustion efficiency. The gain is around 16hp.

That's ridiculous made-up BS, again from gazzetta and Filisetti. And oil is indeed frozen since march 2022, but these people arent aware of that. They are distorting Merc and Alpine statements.
.

This is the same source that predicted perfectly the W13 spec b and the windtunnel info

.
Nope they weren't the first ones to "predict" W13B.

[pursue_one's]

Aside from this, the German squad has outlined some important developments for their 2023 car:

“Work continues at high intensity at the factory – with the final FIA homologation tests being completed on the new car, operations flat out producing the componentry for the first chassis (plural) tests and development testing on sub-systems of the car and, of course, the 2023 Power unit being fine-tuned, long-runned and passed off ahead of delivery of the track test engines for Bahrain.”

When considering the gradually improving trajectory of the Mercedes W13 last year, it seems reasonable that the German squad’s second attempt to conquer these new regulations could be more fruitful.


The note issued by the team was also keen to emphasize the importance for the team of the month we are about to live. In fact, this year will be 10 years of belonging and working at Mercedes for Lewis Hamilton and Toto Wolff. A milestone that Mercedes "does not intend to celebrate in a major way, but it represents an interesting milestone."

"2023 also marks 30 years since Mercedes almost officially returned to F1 in black livery, in Sauber, in 1993."

source: Mercedes: i colloqui con Lewis non sono iniziati. La W14 è quasi pronta
https://www.formu1a.uno/mercedes-i-coll ... si-pronta/

[Stu]

In football (uk), this would be Lewis’ testimonial year and he would be expected to free-transfer to a lower league team!