Ferrari 675 Speculation Thread

[continuum16]

Like most of us here, I’m skeptical of this “1s faster than 2022” claim that’s bouncing around. I think there is a definite chance that the car will be faster for sure, but a full second would be something special.

In years of stable regs, a one second gain would be impressive for a front running car. I know the article mentions some possible reasons as to how this is done.

One detail I think might be overlooked is the new Pirellis, which should dial out understeer. This could change the car balance and from that you can get quite a lot of lap time.

At RB, for example, the RB18 was understeery at the start of the year, and Verstappen and Perez were close to each other and about on par with the F1-75 or just behind. Suddenly RB dials out the understeer and Verstappen finds 0.3-0.5s per lap on the other three drivers, relatively speaking. Ferrari could see a similar benefit, as will a lot of the grid.

[mendis]

Like most of us here, I’m skeptical of this “1s faster than 2022” claim that’s bouncing around. I think there is a definite chance that the car will be faster for sure, but a full second would be something special.

In years of stable regs, a one second gain would be impressive for a front running car. I know the article mentions some possible reasons as to how this is done.

One detail I think might be overlooked is the new Pirellis, which should dial out understeer. This could change the car balance and from that you can get quite a lot of lap time.

At RB, for example, the RB18 was understeery at the start of the year, and Verstappen and Perez were close to each other and about on par with the F1-75 or just behind. Suddenly RB dials out the understeer and Verstappen finds 0.3-0.5s per lap on the other three drivers, relatively speaking. Ferrari could see a similar benefit, as will a lot of the grid.

Second year of a brand new set of regulations offers tremendous growth opportunity. Moreso in a budget era where teams couldn't build and deploy everything they could in 2022, because of budget constraints. So a great deal of upgrades that would have been on 2022 car, has to be deferred to 2023 to stay within 2022 budgets. Ferrari didn't bring any upgrades after Hungary last year. So it's not that hard to imagine a full second on top of F1-75 is possible, despite the downforce cut for 2023.

[AR3-GP]

Like most of us here, I’m skeptical of this “1s faster than 2022” claim that’s bouncing around. I think there is a definite chance that the car will be faster for sure, but a full second would be something special.

In years of stable regs, a one second gain would be impressive for a front running car. I know the article mentions some possible reasons as to how this is done.

One detail I think might be overlooked is the new Pirellis, which should dial out understeer. This could change the car balance and from that you can get quite a lot of lap time.

At RB, for example, the RB18 was understeery at the start of the year, and Verstappen and Perez were close to each other and about on par with the F1-75 or just behind. Suddenly RB dials out the understeer and Verstappen finds 0.3-0.5s per lap on the other three drivers, relatively speaking. Ferrari could see a similar benefit, as will a lot of the grid.

Second year of a brand new set of regulations offers tremendous growth opportunity. Moreso in a budget era where teams couldn't build and deploy everything they could in 2022, because of budget constraints. So a great deal of upgrades that would have been on 2022 car, has to be deferred to 2023 to stay within 2022 budgets. Ferrari didn't bring any upgrades after Hungary last year. So it's not that hard to imagine a full second on top of F1-75 is possible, despite the downforce cut for 2023.

I agree about this. People forget that the engineers still spent an entire year "thinking" about upgrades, despite not being able to spend the money on them. It just means that laptime found over the winter will be bigger than what is typical.

[Schippke]

Whilst anybody here would welcome a 1 Second improvement to the SF-75 from last year (despite how strong it already was), there could always be the case that Red Bull and Mercedes could've found the same, if not more than us... so this is all just a hype which the authors of the articles always portray, forgetting the fact there is 9 other teams on the grid... especially when reporting on the state of Ferrari.

Mercedes in particular might find the biggest gains, having started getting to the bottom of their car last year and have had a whole year behind the scenes to figure out solutions to cure the issues it had; Would not be surprised if they end up being the challengers of Red Bull compared to us.

All that being said, hopefully a more stable and front-strong car (as well as the new tyres that dial out a bit of understeer) will play into the likes of Leclerc more so... not that he was lacking much confidence last year, but every little bit will help. Wonder how it'll effect Sainz...

[Vanja #66]

I agree about this. People forget that the engineers still spent an entire year "thinking" about upgrades, despite not being able to spend the money on them. It just means that laptime found over the winter will be bigger than what is typical.

This is a valid argument. And will hold true for all teams, so Ferrari won't be an exception. If Ferrari can get 1s from this and tyres, so will all other teams.

I'm still expecting the biggest improvement from Mercedes, everything with rule changes and the CFD/WT time works in their favour.

[Holm86]

I agree about this. People forget that the engineers still spent an entire year "thinking" about upgrades, despite not being able to spend the money on them. It just means that laptime found over the winter will be bigger than what is typical.

This is a valid argument. And will hold true for all teams, so Ferrari won't be an exception. If Ferrari can get 1s from this and tyres, so will all other teams.

I'm still expecting the biggest improvement from Mercedes, everything with rule changes and the CFD/WT time works in their favour.

1 second still sound like way too much, thinking about the floor has been nerfed for this season.

[Venturiation]

I agree about this. People forget that the engineers still spent an entire year "thinking" about upgrades, despite not being able to spend the money on them. It just means that laptime found over the winter will be bigger than what is typical.

This is a valid argument. And will hold true for all teams, so Ferrari won't be an exception. If Ferrari can get 1s from this and tyres, so will all other teams.

I'm still expecting the biggest improvement from Mercedes, everything with rule changes and the CFD/WT time works in their favour.

Mercedes will still be the worst of them
I don’t see them getting out of P3 , if they don’t get beaten by Alpine or Aston Martin

They are too far behind and will need a brand new car that they won’t understand

[Andi76]

I agree about this. People forget that the engineers still spent an entire year "thinking" about upgrades, despite not being able to spend the money on them. It just means that laptime found over the winter will be bigger than what is typical.

This is a valid argument. And will hold true for all teams, so Ferrari won't be an exception. If Ferrari can get 1s from this and tyres, so will all other teams.

I'm still expecting the biggest improvement from Mercedes, everything with rule changes and the CFD/WT time works in their favour.

Its really s valid argument, one i have not really thought of. But anyway - i know a lot of Ferrari people and i know their contracts. That they freely tell how much faster the new car is in the simulator seems far-fetched to me and would be an absolute breach of contract. And especially in this regard, I have never seen a Ferrari employee in all these years who does not absolutely respect this. That sometimes vague hints are made, like "air resistance we are not satisfied" or "downforce values seem to be very good", that yes, but that exact values of simulations regarding lap times or technical details are divulged, such a thing I consider very unlikely. In any case, I have made the experience that Ferrari employees normally don't do that. Especially since, as I said, it would be an absolute breach of the very strict contracts that Formula 1 employees have with Ferrari.

[Vanja #66]

1 second still sound like way too much, thinking about the floor has been nerfed for this season.

Agreed completely. If teams do manage it, wow... Next level engineering.

Mercedes will still be the worst of them
I don’t see them getting out of P3 , if they don’t get beaten by Alpine or Aston Martin

They are too far behind and will need a brand new car that they won’t understand

I really don't see fastest Mercedes more than 0.3s behind fastest RB in Q3 in Bahrain.

Its really s valid argument, one i have not really thought of. But anyway - i know a lot of Ferrari people and i know their contracts. ***

Thanks for sharing, this really does put a new perspective on whole "1s faster" report.

[Venturiation]

I agree about this. People forget that the engineers still spent an entire year "thinking" about upgrades, despite not being able to spend the money on them. It just means that laptime found over the winter will be bigger than what is typical.

This is a valid argument. And will hold true for all teams, so Ferrari won't be an exception. If Ferrari can get 1s from this and tyres, so will all other teams.

I'm still expecting the biggest improvement from Mercedes, everything with rule changes and the CFD/WT time works in their favour.

Its really s valid argument, one i have not really thought of. But anyway - i know a lot of Ferrari people and i know their contracts. That they freely tell how much faster the new car is in the simulator seems far-fetched to me and would be an absolute breach of contract. And especially in this regard, I have never seen a Ferrari employee in all these years who does not absolutely respect this. That sometimes vague hints are made, like "air resistance we are not satisfied" or "downforce values seem to be very good", that yes, but that exact values of simulations regarding lap times or technical details are divulged, such a thing I consider very unlikely. In any case, I have made the experience that Ferrari employees normally don't do that. Especially since, as I said, it would be an absolute breach of the very strict contracts that Formula 1 employees have with Ferrari.

These are leaks, of course the employees won’t go and publicly say i leaked the info
And the journalist of that rumor are serious, they predicted all the upgrades that Ferrari brought in 2022

[FDD]

I agree about this. People forget that the engineers still spent an entire year "thinking" about upgrades, despite not being able to spend the money on them. It just means that laptime found over the winter will be bigger than what is typical.

This is a valid argument. And will hold true for all teams, so Ferrari won't be an exception. If Ferrari can get 1s from this and tyres, so will all other teams.

I'm still expecting the biggest improvement from Mercedes, everything with rule changes and the CFD/WT time works in their favour.

Its really s valid argument, one i have not really thought of. But anyway - i know a lot of Ferrari people and i know their contracts. That they freely tell how much faster the new car is in the simulator seems far-fetched to me and would be an absolute breach of contract. And especially in this regard, I have never seen a Ferrari employee in all these years who does not absolutely respect this. That sometimes vague hints are made, like "air resistance we are not satisfied" or "downforce values seem to be very good", that yes, but that exact values of simulations regarding lap times or technical details are divulged, such a thing I consider very unlikely. In any case, I have made the experience that Ferrari employees normally don't do that. Especially since, as I said, it would be an absolute breach of the very strict contracts that Formula 1 employees have with Ferrari.

Nice point.
Me, as a Ferrari fan, I hope that they were conservative with the statements and that they find 2 seconds in the simulator. Do not get me wrong, I am taking You seriously, but this is my unserious hope as Cavalino Rampante all life fan.

[BlueCheetah66]

I wouldn't believe most of the speculation, especially about numbers. I remember last year there were reports Red Bulls car was back on the same pace as the RB16B and others about engine advantages that didnt seem to be true. Surely it would be near impossible for Ferrari to have found a second of pace with the changes to the floor regs, unless it is trying to line up with the other reports that Ferrari have a rocket engine

[francoliberati]

https://www.f1sport.it/2023/01/f1-la-fe ... r-il-2023/

very interesting report of post since to september 2022 on Ferrari 675

[Vanja #66]

It's mentioned in the article that shortening the sidepods will trigger turbulence and separation. This may be completely incorrect, since separation depends on various geometry details. If sidepods are narrower, then by being shorter they keep geometric similarity to F1-75 solution, so why should separation be expected?

[trinidefender]

It's mentioned in the article that shortening the sidepods will trigger turbulence and separation. This may be completely incorrect, since separation depends on various geometry details. If sidepods are narrower, then by being shorter they keep geometric similarity to F1-75 solution, so why should separation be expected?

Wouldn't doing this reduce the amount of control the sidepod has on moving airflow outwards away from the floor.

Last year we saw teams with excessively large sidepods and some teams even increase the size of their sidepods throughout the year.

What methods would be available by teams to offset this loss in airflow control?