Oracle Red Bull Racing RB19 Speculation Thread

[PhillipM]

Happens a lot in testing to a many of the teams over the years, especially if they don't tape up properly in a hurry. Sidepod covers are fragile af.

[AR3-GP]

It's not much but...

[chrisc90]

If Max says he's feeling happy with the car, it must definitely be in a good spot.

One thing ive learned from Max is when doing interviews, how he speaks about the car, its feeling and performance, usually is pretty much bang on from what we see come quali and race day.

[Andi76]

Redbull can remove sidepods and become the fastest because they don’t have porpoising

Another theory what if Redbull had to change alot their concept and don’t want to show anything to us?

During the winter they found something unseen by others and they had 5o do anyway the show for the ford sponsoring so they showed last year car

The theory that Red Bull found something in the winter that prompted them to change their concept can be safely banished to the realm of fairy tales, because it would have been impossible for a team to overturn its entire concept in the winter, even before the budget cap. The monocoque, which is essential for any concept changes, is defined in July and August, and things like the transmission or radiator are already ready in October. So overturning the concept in the middle of winter is completely impossible.

Certainly Red Bull doesn't want to show some things, just like in 2022, but the concept has certainly not been overturned. It's not technically possible. It's just that Red Bull doesn't want to reveal anything. That's why they didn't present the new car. The same thing was done in 2022. But that's all there is to it.

That they would win anyway, even with a Zeropod design, because they don't have porpoising - porpoising pretty much everyone already had a handle on before the summer break....

[mendis]

Redbull can remove sidepods and become the fastest because they don’t have porpoising

Another theory what if Redbull had to change alot their concept and don’t want to show anything to us?

During the winter they found something unseen by others and they had 5o do anyway the show for the ford sponsoring so they showed last year car

The theory that Red Bull found something in the winter that prompted them to change their concept can be safely banished to the realm of fairy tales, because it would have been impossible for a team to overturn its entire concept in the winter, even before the budget cap. The monocoque, which is essential for any concept changes, is defined in July and August, and things like the transmission or radiator are already ready in October. So overturning the concept in the middle of winter is completely impossible.

Certainly Red Bull doesn't want to show some things, just like in 2022, but the concept has certainly not been overturned. It's not technically possible. It's just that Red Bull doesn't want to reveal anything. That's why they didn't present the new car. The same thing was done in 2022. But that's all there is to it.

That they would win anyway, even with a Zeropod design, because they don't have porpoising - porpoising pretty much everyone already had a handle on before the summer break....

I am not fueling furher that Red Bull have changed the concept, but it's not beyond the realms of possibility considering the fact that, both Red Bull and Ferrari stopped development of their 2022 contenders right after Summer. It's not an absolute mandate that the Monocoque need to change for an aerodynamic concept change and within the existing design of the monocoque, there are possibilities of going for a different concept. But then like I said, they had time since summer to change the monocoque if that was necessary.

[Andi76]

Redbull can remove sidepods and become the fastest because they don’t have porpoising

Another theory what if Redbull had to change alot their concept and don’t want to show anything to us?

During the winter they found something unseen by others and they had 5o do anyway the show for the ford sponsoring so they showed last year car

The theory that Red Bull found something in the winter that prompted them to change their concept can be safely banished to the realm of fairy tales, because it would have been impossible for a team to overturn its entire concept in the winter, even before the budget cap. The monocoque, which is essential for any concept changes, is defined in July and August, and things like the transmission or radiator are already ready in October. So overturning the concept in the middle of winter is completely impossible.

Certainly Red Bull doesn't want to show some things, just like in 2022, but the concept has certainly not been overturned. It's not technically possible. It's just that Red Bull doesn't want to reveal anything. That's why they didn't present the new car. The same thing was done in 2022. But that's all there is to it.

That they would win anyway, even with a Zeropod design, because they don't have porpoising - porpoising pretty much everyone already had a handle on before the summer break....

I am not fueling furher that Red Bull have changed the concept, but it's not beyond the realms of possibility considering the fact that, both Red Bull and Ferrari stopped development of their 2022 contenders right after Summer. It's not an absolute mandate that the Monocoque need to change for an aerodynamic concept change and within the existing design of the monocoque, there are possibilities of going for a different concept. But then like I said, they had time since summer to change the monocoque if that was necessary.

If this happened in the summer, I agree with you. What I was saying, since you could understand this, is that you don't suddenly find something in the middle of winter and then overturn your entire concept and redesign it. It's not possible to do something like that.

[JordanMugen]

I am not fueling furher that Red Bull have changed the concept

It is very unlikely that Red Bull have changed concept, that is not how Newey operates. Recall the evolution of the RB3 into the RB4. Then the evolution of the 2009 new regulation RB5 into the 6 through 9. Similar examples can be found at Leyton House, Williams and McLaren too.

It would seem an unwise gamble, especially when you are starting with the most competitive concept on the grid!

[Venturiation]

I am not fueling furher that Red Bull have changed the concept

It is very unlikely that Red Bull have changed concept, that is not how Newey operates. Recall the evolution of the RB3 into the RB4. Then the evolution of the 2009 new regulation RB5 into the 6 through 9.

Newey isn’t the one dictating the concept, they are a team

[JordanMugen]

I am not fueling furher that Red Bull have changed the concept

It is very unlikely that Red Bull have changed concept, that is not how Newey operates. Recall the evolution of the RB3 into the RB4. Then the evolution of the 2009 new regulation RB5 into the 6 through 9.

Newey isn’t the one dictating the concept, they are a team

Agreed, but it doesn't take a genius to work out it is better (more efficient) to improve upon a very good design than to start again from scratch!

If you had a car that was terrible then by all means designers might consider changing to a new concept.

[AR3-GP]

Redbull can remove sidepods and become the fastest because they don’t have porpoising

Another theory what if Redbull had to change alot their concept and don’t want to show anything to us?

During the winter they found something unseen by others and they had 5o do anyway the show for the ford sponsoring so they showed last year car

The monocoque, which is essential for any concept changes, is defined in July and August, and things like the transmission or radiator are already ready in October. So overturning the concept in the middle of winter is completely impossible.

I don't think this is correct. The monocoque only needs changes if the A-surface of the new concept intersects the old monocoque. This is a monocoque:


The entire front wing, and the entire rear section of the car are not included in it. A team could have a completely new sidepod, gearbox, diffuser, and rear floor without changing the monocoque.

Mercedes showed up with two different sidepods last year....Teams like Alpine, Williams, and Aston Martin had dramatic in-season transformations.

[AR3-GP]

Redbull can remove sidepods and become the fastest because they don’t have porpoising

Another theory what if Redbull had to change alot their concept and don’t want to show anything to us?

During the winter they found something unseen by others and they had 5o do anyway the show for the ford sponsoring so they showed last year car

That they would win anyway, even with a Zeropod design, because they don't have porpoising - porpoising pretty much everyone already had a handle on before the summer break....

I agree and it makes you wonder why there are regulations changes for the upcoming season.

[Big Tea]

There need not be anything wrong with the 22 car, it lead the field right up to the last day of the season.

If they had 6 months where the car did not need to be improved, they had 6 months to develop to the next level.

If they felt that the 22 car was reaching the peak of development for that model, or close to the diminishing returns line, there would come a point where the best option would be a clean sheet redesign

If they had that huge buffer, why spend time money and resources on scrapping out hundredths when for little more they could gain multiple tenths or even whole seconds if it was that advanced

[Andi76]

Redbull can remove sidepods and become the fastest because they don’t have porpoising

Another theory what if Redbull had to change alot their concept and don’t want to show anything to us?

During the winter they found something unseen by others and they had 5o do anyway the show for the ford sponsoring so they showed last year car

The monocoque, which is essential for any concept changes, is defined in July and August, and things like the transmission or radiator are already ready in October. So overturning the concept in the middle of winter is completely impossible.

I don't think this is correct. The monocoque only needs changes if the A-surface of the new concept intersects the old monocoque. This is a monocoque:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CVe4UULW4AA-Wn-.jpg

The entire front wing, and the entire rear section of the car are not included in it. A team could have a completely new sidepod, gearbox, diffuser, and rear floor without changing the monocoque.

Mercedes showed up with two different sidepods last year....Teams like Alpine, Williams, and Aston Martin had dramatic in-season transformations.

I think you and I have different views on what a concept change is. You are talking about modifications in aerodynamics, not a real concept change. A "concept change" in my book is including the car as a whole. And if you completely change your concept, that usually means profound changes in quite a few things. Driver position, seat position, suspension points, engine mounts, radiator positioning and layout, transmission position and shape, packaging. And you can't do that without a completely new monocoque. What you are talking about are more or less nothing else than aerodynamic modifications. And even there it gets difficult at a certain point. For example, profound changes to the diffuser. To make really deep changes here you usually need a new gearbox if you want to make other deep changes to the rear end, because otherwise there are too few possibilities, since this dictates crucial things regarding space and room in the rear end area. And to design and build a completely new transmission - that takes time, it's not done and ready in four weeks. And it doesn't stop there, because that entails other necessary changes. And here I don't even have to speak to then different torsional and torsional stiffness requirements that might be needed. There's a reason why no team overturns its entire concept in the middle of winter or during the season.

[AR3-GP]

The monocoque, which is essential for any concept changes, is defined in July and August, and things like the transmission or radiator are already ready in October. So overturning the concept in the middle of winter is completely impossible.

I don't think this is correct. The monocoque only needs changes if the A-surface of the new concept intersects the old monocoque. This is a monocoque:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CVe4UULW4AA-Wn-.jpg

The entire front wing, and the entire rear section of the car are not included in it. A team could have a completely new sidepod, gearbox, diffuser, and rear floor without changing the monocoque.

Mercedes showed up with two different sidepods last year....Teams like Alpine, Williams, and Aston Martin had dramatic in-season transformations.

I think you and I have different views on what a concept change is. You are talking about modifications in aerodynamics, not a real concept change. A "concept change" in my book is including the car as a whole. And if you completely change your concept, that usually means profound changes in quite a few things. Driver position, seat position, suspension points, engine mounts, radiator positioning and layout, transmission position and shape, packaging. And you can't do that without a completely new monocoque.

Would you not consider the A-Spec AMR22 and the B-Spec AMR22 to be a concept change?

I'm not really sure why you are looking to envision the most dramatic transformation possible. It's a bit of a strawman if I might say. The initial discussion was to consider how much leeway RB had with regards to the aero concept. That is a real concept change. One can certainly make fundamental changes to a car's performance, by way of wholesale changes to the aerodynamics without actually changing much about the monocoque. The gearbox has nothing to do with the monocoque.

We saw this with several teams last season.

One does not need to turn the radiators on their head, move the turbo to the back, and invert the suspension to effect a "concept change" which has a profound impact on the performance. It's silly to downplay the effect that aerodynamic changes have on the "concept" of a car, when aerodynamics is probably the largest performance differentiator at the moment (certainly far more than PU nowadays).

[godlameroso]

Redbull can remove sidepods and become the fastest because they don’t have porpoising

Another theory what if Redbull had to change alot their concept and don’t want to show anything to us?

During the winter they found something unseen by others and they had 5o do anyway the show for the ford sponsoring so they showed last year car

The theory that Red Bull found something in the winter that prompted them to change their concept can be safely banished to the realm of fairy tales, because it would have been impossible for a team to overturn its entire concept in the winter, even before the budget cap. The monocoque, which is essential for any concept changes, is defined in July and August, and things like the transmission or radiator are already ready in October. So overturning the concept in the middle of winter is completely impossible.

Certainly Red Bull doesn't want to show some things, just like in 2022, but the concept has certainly not been overturned. It's not technically possible. It's just that Red Bull doesn't want to reveal anything. That's why they didn't present the new car. The same thing was done in 2022. But that's all there is to it.

That they would win anyway, even with a Zeropod design, because they don't have porpoising - porpoising pretty much everyone already had a handle on before the summer break....

Was it the teams who got a handle on porpoising, or did the hotter summer months and tracks at elevation resulting in slightly lower air density help hide the phenomenon? As far as I could tell, RBR were the only ones that had less bouncing consistently regardless of conditions.