2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

[ME4ME]

Mclaren Honda is a natural fit that historically makes sense. More sense than Aston Martin Honda or any other options. It might happen if Honda wants to, but I guess it would be on their terms.

Some people in Honda must really be disappointed with how their corporate leaders played their cards.
Honda could've been partners with Red Bull Racing and Alpha Tauri until 2030, winning races with the main team and riding the Verstappen wave, while also having Japanese talent driving for Alpha Tauri.

Instead now they have a potent power unit which isn't getting the publicity it deserves, and a uncertain future in the sport. And while Honda has come good, there remain (at least in my opinion) doubts over Mclarens ability to fight at the front. Are they really going to be a top team by 2026?

I think Mclaren would be lucky if Honda could forget the recent past and supply them 2026-30.

[billamend]

McLaren should be all over Honda to get a works deal.

[the EDGE]

They'll be back together 100%.

I’d say your crazy, except I guess if Honda really want to enter then there’s a 1-5 chance, and Honda will want to win again

The obvious choice would be they stick with AT… but RB will never ‘let’ them win a championship

Williams & Haas would be unlikely, if Honda want a chance of winning, also I doubt Haas would walk way from Ferrari, given their deep rooted partnership

So really thats 50/50 with McLaren & AM

I really can’t see an AM/Honda tie-up either, due to AM/Merc commercial relationship outside of F1

That just leaves… McLaren

I'm not so sure they would not go to Williams. Old Williams under Clair, fair enough, it was not on.
Now when it is run as an enterprise not a family business there is a lot going on for Honda to look at.

If they decide to 'just' do engines, the team that have worked with RBR and AT could go there, and possibly bring along selected people from the teams they have 'learned with', otherwise they could maybe buy into the existing structure which would greatly increase the value of the holding, which is what they are there for.

I don't suppose it matters to to the holding company what the team is actually called, as long as it has more value.
The team owners could even step back and allow Honda to make it a works team, as long as their name was associated with it and they had earnings from it, and Honda could cut a deal that if they decide ins (say)5 years it has not worked out, they are repaid a set % of value and Honda go home and Williams continue as now

Put like that, it does make sense

I guess it would come down to under what terms James Vowels left Mercedes

If it was an agreed deal under mutually beneficial terms then I’m sure the relationship would last, if he was poached away then maybe there is a deal to be had with Honda

[diffuser]

I’d say your crazy, except I guess if Honda really want to enter then there’s a 1-5 chance, and Honda will want to win again

The obvious choice would be they stick with AT… but RB will never ‘let’ them win a championship

Williams & Haas would be unlikely, if Honda want a chance of winning, also I doubt Haas would walk way from Ferrari, given their deep rooted partnership

So really thats 50/50 with McLaren & AM

I really can’t see an AM/Honda tie-up either, due to AM/Merc commercial relationship outside of F1

That just leaves… McLaren

I'm not so sure they would not go to Williams. Old Williams under Clair, fair enough, it was not on.
Now when it is run as an enterprise not a family business there is a lot going on for Honda to look at.

If they decide to 'just' do engines, the team that have worked with RBR and AT could go there, and possibly bring along selected people from the teams they have 'learned with', otherwise they could maybe buy into the existing structure which would greatly increase the value of the holding, which is what they are there for.

I don't suppose it matters to to the holding company what the team is actually called, as long as it has more value.
The team owners could even step back and allow Honda to make it a works team, as long as their name was associated with it and they had earnings from it, and Honda could cut a deal that if they decide ins (say)5 years it has not worked out, they are repaid a set % of value and Honda go home and Williams continue as now

Put like that, it does make sense

I guess it would come down to under what terms James Vowels left Mercedes

If it was an agreed deal under mutually beneficial terms then I’m sure the relationship would last, if he was poached away then maybe there is a deal to be had with Honda

In a modern company like merc racing, you'd think that they would be proud that one of their own was moving up. Not like that opportunity was available at Merc... I bet Vowel's salary was under the CAP at Merc, while at Williams, he'll be one of those exempt from the CAP. So you can't prevent a person from earning.

With regards to Honda, there were rumours of a switch to Renault prior to the Porsche rumours. So they're ready to switch. Honda just needs to show more interest.

[JordanMugen]

.
Why is that?

As Norris defeated him, if Norris defeats Piastri too, preferably by a margin for Ricci, that is put in a different light, if Piastri holds his own that doesn’t reflect too good on Ricciardo’s fairing last years.

I disagree, it was pretty clear that the driving style needed for the McLaren’s was polar opposite to Daniels driving style.

Heck even Lando told the team they need to fix the cars handling issues for ‘23!

Just don’t tell The Mclaren fans Norris said this, for them black is white, and white is black. I recommend they stay away from zebra crossings as a result.

https://www.planetf1.com/news/lando-nor ... for-years/

Norris reckons the team’s chances of securing best of the rest were hurt by a car that does not have enough front-end grip.

“It’s just our car,” he told Sky Sports, “the characteristics of the car. The things we struggled with, the car doesn’t have enough front. For me, all I need is front. I don’t need rear tyres.

“But when I have front we can be quick.

“As soon as we destroy the front tyres, we were seconds off, or half a second, or one second off. So it’s just the characteristic the car relies on too much.

“But we know all of this. We’ve known it, it’s just been something we’ve had for years sadly and it’s our job to get rid of that for next season.”

Relevance of the bolded?

The first comparison is to the teammate and Daniel did so poorly that McLaren felt compelled to buy out Ricciardo's contract.

[proteus]

Everything is very quiet on the sponsor front at Mclaren this year.

[McG]

McLaren should be all over Honda to get a works deal.

Why? The only reason Honda started to do well is because they eventually accepted help from Red Bull which they didn't accept with McLaren. Add to that some classic Red Bull rule bending, dirty ruthless driver, an incompetent FIA and we have an extremely flattered "Honda".

Now Honda are diluted with Red Bull. Ford will start to bring in something different again and the ex Honda employees will no longer be Honda and will not have been for a significant amount of time.

Honda as we knew it will have to start from scratch. Hopefully McLaren don't go near Honda ever again. McLaren need to sort their car out before thinking about changing engine. Time will tell on that.

[RonMexico]

McLaren should be all over Honda to get a works deal.

Why? The only reason Honda started to do well is because they eventually accepted help from Red Bull which they didn't accept with McLaren. Add to that some classic Red Bull rule bending, dirty ruthless driver, an incompetent FIA and we have an extremely flattered "Honda".

Now Honda are diluted with Red Bull. Ford will start to bring in something different again and the ex Honda employees will no longer be Honda and will not have been for a significant amount of time.

Honda as we knew it will have to start from scratch. Hopefully McLaren don't go near Honda ever again. McLaren need to sort their car out before thinking about changing engine. Time will tell on that.

Neither side covered themselves in glory during the McHonda days. The fact it was viewed as two sides might have been a large part of the problem.

What help were McLaren offering?

Honda came in premature due to Ron Dennis impetuous action, got the engine architecture wrong and had poor ers. They managed to solve all those issues and won a couple of championships.

McLaren haven't been able to solve all their issues and look to be standing still

[Darth-Piekus]

What a bad excuse I am hearing. Honda had more than 2 years to create a relevant engine for the 2015 F1 Championship for Mclaren. Instead they created that engine the last minute producing a GP2 engine which blew up with the minimal amount of vibrations. Also the fact that they took them 7 years to create a good engine is a disgrace in my opinion. Finally regarding the 2021 and 2022 championships would they have managed to win them if the FIA handled the correct punishments to Red Bull for their cheating and mr. Masi following the normal F1 rules?

However despite all the above I think that third time's a charm. Zak Brown's Mclaren is a different team than the one of Ron Dennis and Honda is creating good engines for 2 years now. I think it could work much better.

[diffuser]

What a bad excuse I am hearing. Honda had more than 2 years to create a relevant engine for the 2015 F1 Championship for Mclaren. Instead they created that engine the last minute producing a GP2 engine which blew up with the minimal amount of vibrations. Also the fact that they took them 7 years to create a good engine is a disgrace in my opinion. Finally regarding the 2021 and 2022 championships would they have managed to win them if the FIA handled the correct punishments to Red Bull for their cheating and mr. Masi following the normal F1 rules?

However despite all the above I think that third time's a charm. Zak Brown's Mclaren is a different team than the one of Ron Dennis and Honda is creating good engines for 2 years now. I think it could work much better.

The current engine regs kicked in for the 2014 season. They were limited to what they could change by a token system. They had 1 year to prepare for a very complex reg that everyone else took 3 years or more. Then when they got it wrong, it was next to impossible to be able to make all the changes. The token system was abolished for 2017, at which point Honda completely redesigned their PUs. It wasn't just that they had a short time to get the PU ready for 2014 but then the token system made it really hard to change systems they got wrong. For example going from a Rear Turbo compressor layout to a split turbo layout was impossible under the token system. There would have been just to many parts you'd have to redesign to make that work.

[hollus]

Macca is the only team lacking a 2023 team thread... any takers?

[billamend]

Macca is the only team lacking a 2023 team thread... any takers?

Hope this works.

[hollus]

It does! Stickied.

[McL-H]

I really want Honda back at McLaren. McLaren never should have let them leave.

[McG]

McLaren should be all over Honda to get a works deal.

Why? The only reason Honda started to do well is because they eventually accepted help from Red Bull which they didn't accept with McLaren. Add to that some classic Red Bull rule bending, dirty ruthless driver, an incompetent FIA and we have an extremely flattered "Honda".

Now Honda are diluted with Red Bull. Ford will start to bring in something different again and the ex Honda employees will no longer be Honda and will not have been for a significant amount of time.

Honda as we knew it will have to start from scratch. Hopefully McLaren don't go near Honda ever again. McLaren need to sort their car out before thinking about changing engine. Time will tell on that.

Neither side covered themselves in glory during the McHonda days. The fact it was viewed as two sides might have been a large part of the problem.

What help were McLaren offering?

Honda came in premature due to Ron Dennis impetuous action, got the engine architecture wrong and had poor ers. They managed to solve all those issues and won a couple of championships.

McLaren haven't been able to solve all their issues and look to be standing still

I didn't say it was one sided then you proceed to bash McLaren anyway. That's not what I was replying to so you're way out of context. And you don't even know that McLaren offered technical expertise when Honda were struggling