2023 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

[organic]

Coming into this blind, but all the hoohaa to do with Ford, are they are mainly doing this because of the attempted marketing to the Americans by Liberty?

I'd imagine that's a major benefit ford offered over a company like Honda.

They are hiring ricciardo, launching their car in NYC and partnering with ford. Their goal is clear

I wouldn't say liberty are necessarily involved. It benefits RB to become more marketable to the american market. They also get the hybrid expertise from a large OEM

[Sevach]

Coming into this blind, but all the hoohaa to do with Ford, are they are mainly doing this because of the attempted marketing to the Americans by Liberty?

F1 is finally popular in the US, despite having no american drivers.
This plays a factor on why Ford and GM suddenly want in, no doubt.

[Wouter]

Horner declares choice of Ford and wishes Honda all the best for 2026

"It is a completely different partnership from the one we discussed with Porsche," Horner began, referring to why Ford was eventually chosen. "This is purely a commercial and technical deal, so there is no cooperation or integration in terms of the business side. It is a deal where we have the opportunity to share knowledge with each other especially on the electronic, software and development aspects. And on the commercial side, with Ford, a partner that has a big share in the US, we can reach that market more easily."

While Ford already announced its intention to stop competing in Formula 1 in 2020, the Japanese carmaker did sign up for the bid for engine partners from 2026. Horner says his team has had "a great partnership with Honda": "When they had told us they no longer wanted to be present in the Formula world, it was with great sadness that we had to set up the Red Bull Powertrain division (RBPT) to take over everything."

"When we had started that journey, fortunately Honda changed plans slightly, so they are supplying us with engines until the end of 2025. Meanwhile, we can prepare for 2026. We have a great working relationship. It is a great company and with the current regulations, we will continue to push with Honda until the last race of the 2025 season."

According to Horner, Red Bull's engine division, meanwhile, is already busy preparing for 2026. Ford engineers will become part of the development process, meaning the official power units will go through life as Red Bull-Ford from that year onwards.

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator

[ringo]

There is a lot of relevance to partner with Ford.
If you look on what Ford is doing with it's road cars, the Mustang e for example, you can see where redbull will add to that type of product line, the EV for Ford and on a global scale. There are things RB can also learn from Ford.
Ford has a huge presence in many forms of motorsport. So overall I think it's a very strong and meaningful partnership.

[AR3-GP]

I wonder if Ford and Red Bull will collaborate on a hypercar for the WEC. One can dream.

[godlameroso]

I'm actually excited to see what is going to happen with Red Bull power trains. Making billet blocks is not outside of their capabilities, and for a small high end manufacturer, they can probably offset the cost by supplying engines to rich clients.

Once the tooling is in place, operating costs, and material costs become your only real overhead. Manpower can be saved for the race stuff. You can make engines from CAD plans.

[chrisc90]

What are current engines made out of? I imagine they will already be billet aluminium or a mix?

[godlameroso]

Honda was casting their blocks up until 2019 IIRC. 3d printed sand molds. Casting, if it can be made stiff enough, has advantages over billet engines. You can make much more intricate, and precise cavities for water cooling, or oil passages. Billet blocks however tend to be stronger structurally, and more importantly, because it's billet, you get more precise repeatability. All castings are slightly different from one another, even with the best methods available, there's always going to be slight variations. CNC machining on the other hand always leaves tooling marks, especially when the CNC machine has to flip the head over and come in from another angle to finish a hole or port or something.

[djos]

CNC machining on the other hand always leaves tooling marks, especially when the CNC machine has to flip the head over and come in from another angle to finish a hole or port or something.

That is generally true, but these days there are CNC polishing processes that produce some pretty amazing finishes (Just think how good the finish on glass lenses need to be).

eg:
https://www.directindustry.com/prod/cos ... 58981.html

[AR3-GP]

The milling process of the CNC is only to get the basic shape of the block. The finish (which will still be quite good) doesn't really matter at all. Any hole or bore is going to be drilled, reamed, honed, etc. Use of sleeves is also possible.

The only disadvantage I see is limitation of the cooling passages. a 3d printed block would be much more interesting as it could have an incredible amount of heat rejection capacity given the large increase in surface area available to a 3D printed design.

[Wazari]

Honda was casting their blocks up until 2019 IIRC. 3d printed sand molds. Casting, if it can be made stiff enough, has advantages over billet engines. You can make much more intricate, and precise cavities for water cooling, or oil passages. Billet blocks however tend to be stronger structurally, and more importantly, because it's billet, you get more precise repeatability. All castings are slightly different from one another, even with the best methods available, there's always going to be slight variations. CNC machining on the other hand always leaves tooling marks, especially when the CNC machine has to flip the head over and come in from another angle to finish a hole or port or something.

The 620 PU and before were cast blocks. The 621 and 622 utilized billet blocks.

[godlameroso]

Honda was casting their blocks up until 2019 IIRC. 3d printed sand molds. Casting, if it can be made stiff enough, has advantages over billet engines. You can make much more intricate, and precise cavities for water cooling, or oil passages. Billet blocks however tend to be stronger structurally, and more importantly, because it's billet, you get more precise repeatability. All castings are slightly different from one another, even with the best methods available, there's always going to be slight variations. CNC machining on the other hand always leaves tooling marks, especially when the CNC machine has to flip the head over and come in from another angle to finish a hole or port or something.

The 620 PU and before were cast blocks. The 621 and 622 utilized billet blocks.

Was the change facilitated indirectly by the cylinder plating?

[BlueCheetah66]

I wonder if Ford and Red Bull will collaborate on a hypercar for the WEC. One can dream.

With Red Bull branching out with the RB17 maybe its not too much of a dream

[Vanja #66]

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/red- ... /10430340/

Red Bull-Ford is understood to have been granted only partial new Formula 1 engine supplier status for 2026 by the FIA, and will thus receive only 90% of the financial benefits.

[Juzh]

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/red- ... /10430340/

Red Bull-Ford is understood to have been granted only partial new Formula 1 engine supplier status for 2026 by the FIA, and will thus receive only 90% of the financial benefits.

More sensible than what that italian article suggested the other day.