Confusion: Is McLaren Formula 1 Team the independent/privateer automaker team or full-factory automaker team?

[PlatinumZealot]

AFAIK, Ron still is in charge of the automaking McLaren so to speak. And he first lost his shares in the team, and then was kicked out of the board.

So now not only the F1 team is owned by others, it is also run by others. So it's a privateer outfit that hasn't got anything to do with making road going autos.

Someone who's more knowledgeable can shed more light maybe.

Ron has no links at all with McLaren these days. He lost both the team and the automotive group about 5(?) years ago.

But yes, the F1 team isn't part of the road car set up.

???

McLaren F1 & McLaren automotive are as connected as Ferrari F1 & their road cars

They are both owned by the same group & operate out of the same facility at Woking, where both race & road cars are manufactured

Ferrari, of course, also build its own engines where as McLarens road car engines are built by Ricardo to McLarens requirements. The new V6 Hybrid was actually designed by McLaren employees

McLaren however are not considered a manufacture, as this denotes a team that builds its own F1 PU, which of course they do not. Being a manufacturer has nothing to do with whether the competitor builds road cars or not

Hmm. Never heard of this before.

You sure it's not to say it's an entity that mass manufactures road cars?

[FW17]

Is Mclaren Automotive be considered a car manufacturer? Is there any % of parts that are to be manufactured by Mclaren to be considered a manufacturer? Engine is outsourced, gearbox is outsourced, chassis is outsourced, suspension and brakes are outsourced (by all), so what do they make. Should a company that glues various parts together, has a tailoring and paint shop be considered a manufacturer?


just kidding

[mrluke]

Ron has no links at all with McLaren these days. He lost both the team and the automotive group about 5(?) years ago.

But yes, the F1 team isn't part of the road car set up.

???

McLaren F1 & McLaren automotive are as connected as Ferrari F1 & their road cars

They are both owned by the same group & operate out of the same facility at Woking, where both race & road cars are manufactured

Ferrari, of course, also build its own engines where as McLarens road car engines are built by Ricardo to McLarens requirements. The new V6 Hybrid was actually designed by McLaren employees

McLaren however are not considered a manufacture, as this denotes a team that builds its own F1 PU, which of course they do not. Being a manufacturer has nothing to do with whether the competitor builds road cars or not

Hmm. Never heard of this before.

You sure it's not to say it's an entity that mass manufactures road cars?

I would tend to agree, in any other race series, the team backed by the manufacturer is the works team as opposed to the independent teams. I'm sure there are plenty of works teams that dont manufacture the engines used in their cars.

But F1 is a right old pickle,

We have red bull that really are a works team, but they dont sell cars.

We have Aston Martin that sell cars, but are very much mid pack and share a lot with Mercedes.

And we had lotus, that were nothing to do with actual lotus but had permission to use their name from the old racing team....

I think that generally the works / independent / privateer differentiator is about how much money the team has. Usually the factory backed teams splash the cash on everything and the privateers make do with last years cars.

If we apply that to F1 then in theory all teams spend the same now...... and while I would agree that its likely closer than it has been in the past I doubt we have actually got to parity.

To bring that back round to the OP, from my contorted logic I would say that Mercedes, Ferrari, Red Bull could be considered works teams, Mclaren and Alpine you could make the argument that they are. Below that not so much.

But I guess really, what is the point of the label? What is trying to be conferred by referring to Mclaren as a works team or not? Does it mean anything? Does it make any difference either way?

[Unc1eM0nty]

Is Mclaren Automotive be considered a car manufacturer? Is there any % of parts that are to be manufactured by Mclaren to be considered a manufacturer? Engine is outsourced, gearbox is outsourced, chassis is outsourced, suspension and brakes are outsourced (by all), so what do they make. Should a company that glues various parts together, has a tailoring and paint shop be considered a manufacturer?


just kidding

I think they make all tubs in-house now


https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... gJxEwpV7Do

[FW17]

Is Mclaren Automotive be considered a car manufacturer? Is there any % of parts that are to be manufactured by Mclaren to be considered a manufacturer? Engine is outsourced, gearbox is outsourced, chassis is outsourced, suspension and brakes are outsourced (by all), so what do they make. Should a company that glues various parts together, has a tailoring and paint shop be considered a manufacturer?


just kidding

I think they make all tubs in-house now


https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... gJxEwpV7Do

That is great news. Hope they survived the 2020 crisis.

[mzivtins]

The new McLaren V6 Hybrid is said to be developed by McLaren Automotive, I suspect there is still some input from Ricardo on this in some capacity, but it is good to see them start to make their own engines... only for a small hope of being a full factory outfit in F1.

The McLaren 750s has been confirmed by McLaren, will this be the same McLaren/Ricardo V8 that appears in all of their other cars? Or will it be the V6 platform but tuned for more power?

I wish they would just come out and tell us their plans for F1, yes or no about the concept of being a full works team being on the cards or not?

[BMMR61]

Maybe a partnership with Honda across all McLaren’s racing endeavours and working towards the same in their road cars eventually would be a tasty dream. I was extremely relieved that they rejected Audi’s bid to buy a controlling share last year but the sort of relationship they enjoyed with Mercedes before Spygate could bring a collaborative approach across all their interests. All the large automotive manufacturers have major collaborations so why would McLaren not cautiously embrace the same?

[mzivtins]

Maybe a partnership with Honda across all McLaren’s racing endeavours and working towards the same in their road cars eventually would be a tasty dream. I was extremely relieved that they rejected Audi’s bid to buy a controlling share last year but the sort of relationship they enjoyed with Mercedes before Spygate could bring a collaborative approach across all their interests. All the large automotive manufacturers have major collaborations so why would McLaren not cautiously embrace the same?

I saw this news today and I haven't been this excited over a rumour style news snippet ever.
I really hope it is true, I have been considering the purchase of a new NSX, and if this re-partnership happens then it would make a nice companion for the macca in the garage!

Somedays I feel like a superfan, but really I'm just a fanboy, so obvious my enthusiasm is a bit OTT

The Artura is a nice v6 hybrid, similar by style to the NSX, I cant see any info on who developed that engine with McLaren, it must be an in house product, but seems unlikely without some consultant activity being involved?

[PikeStance]

Hey,

I am brand new to Formula 1. I do have probably a very rudimentary question.

When a team uses an engine from another source (e.g. McLaren using a Mercedes engine), I am not entirely sure what this means. Does McLaren develop and engineer the engine and Mercedes manufactures it or does Mercedes design the engine. It seems like it is he former, but it is not entirely clear reading the thread.


(In case you are interested in how I got into this,.. not required reading
.... My son (4) enjoy putting together Legos. Desiring to do something more challenging, I chose a Formula 1 car, McLaren. I was curious about the car and so I started watching stuff on youtube. A long time ago (in my 20s) I used to watch NASCAR, so I am not totally new to Motorsports. I also enjoyed Karting as a kid. I have been watching for a month now (all caught up) and I have enjoyed the races despite the dominance of Red Bull.)

[Stu]

Hey,

I am brand new to Formula 1. I do have probably a very rudimentary question.

When a team uses an engine from another source (e.g. McLaren using a Mercedes engine), I am not entirely sure what this means. Does McLaren develop and engineer the engine and Mercedes manufactures it or does Mercedes design the engine. It seems like it is he former, but it is not entirely clear reading the thread.

Mod note - Original post edited to reduce length

Mercedes (or rather Mercedes HPT) design and manufacture the engine. Others then buy (more accurately buy a lease) to use the engines in their cars. It is the teams job to integrate the supplied engine and ancillary parts (any homologated part) into the overall layout. Teams can either buy/lease an entire PU (ICE, MGU, Battery) and transmission or can opt to build their own transmission. Cooling and anything outside of homologated PU parts are the responsibility of the team.

[Just_a_fan]

When a team uses an engine from another source (e.g. McLaren using a Mercedes engine), I am not entirely sure what this means. Does McLaren develop and engineer the engine and Mercedes manufactures it or does Mercedes design the engine. It seems like it is he former, but it is not entirely clear reading the thread.

Mercedes's engine team design and build the engine. McLaren rents the engines from Mercedes. McLaren won't be allowed to do anything to the engine other than bolt it on and take it off. Anything going on within the engine is the business of Mercedes alone - McLaren won't be allowed to do anything other than put fluids in/drain them out.

[PikeStance]

Thanks for the quick replies.

So, according to F1 website, Mercedes (obviously), McLaren, Aston Martin, and Williams all use Mercedes PU.
So is this the same engine or four different engines? (sorry might be a silly question, but I trying to get things straight in my head.

[taperoo2k]

Thanks for the quick replies.

So, according to F1 website, Mercedes (obviously), McLaren, Aston Martin, and Williams all use Mercedes PU.
So is this the same engine or four different engines? (sorry might be a silly question, but I trying to get things straight in my head.

As there is an engine freeze (apart from reliability upgrades) it's the same engine design. One of difference makers between a works team and a customer team is how the PU is integrated into the chassis.

[PikeStance]

Thanks for the quick replies.

So, according to F1 website, Mercedes (obviously), McLaren, Aston Martin, and Williams all use Mercedes PU.
So is this the same engine or four different engines? (sorry might be a silly question, but I trying to get things straight in my head.

As there is an engine freeze (apart from reliability upgrades) it's the same engine design. One of difference makers between a works team and a customer team is how the PU is integrated into the chassis.

How is it different? McLaren, Mercedes, Williams, and Aston Martin all have to integrate the PU.

[PlatinumZealot]

What is Aston Martin?

How is Aston Martin considered a works team and McLaren. It doesn't make any sense.