2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

[haza]

All this negativity and a wheel hasn’t even turned I wouldn’t at all be surprised if McLaren are just being cautious with their words remember Barcelona tests last year an how it went from optimism to heart break come the Bahrain test, I reckon there just playing safe to not build expectations like last year

[Emag]

All this negativity and a wheel hasn’t even turned I wouldn’t at all be surprised if McLaren are just being cautious with their words remember Barcelona tests last year an how it went from optimism to heart break come the Bahrain test, I reckon there just playing safe to not build expectations like last year

This is probably the most likely scenario. But you cannot scoff at the negativity here when the team itself has no confidence to share with their fans. I don't see how they could expect a different reaction when they are so downbeat before the car has even hit the track.

Yes, it could be that they want to underpromise and overdeliver after last year's disaster start to the season. But even so, the fact that they have to resort to this sort of tactic to keep the fans happy when the season starts is not an attitude I would endorse.

They have been bullish about their investments and team restructure since 2019. Now that we are nearing the deadlines of their own predictions for bringing McLaren to the front, people would be expecting results. The fact that they went backwards last year after consecutive improvements is not a good sign. And not having confidence in your own technical capabilities to develop a car that is good enough to beat the midfield after making predictions of actually fighting for the championship within the next two seasons is also not a good sign.

You don't see Mercedes, RedBull and Ferrari display that lack of confidence, because if you are certain of your abilities, you should not be scared of others pulling an "one-up" on you.

[Stig14]

McLaren stating on social media that the car will debut on track on Tuesday 21st at Bahrain. Presumably this will be their shakedown ahead of the proper preseason on Thursday 23rd. Gives them a chance to get setup at the track early and find any issues in a representative scenario I suppose.

[Ground Effect]

All this negativity and a wheel hasn’t even turned I wouldn’t at all be surprised if McLaren are just being cautious with their words remember Barcelona tests last year an how it went from optimism to heart break come the Bahrain test, I reckon there just playing safe to not build expectations like last year

This is probably the most likely scenario. But you cannot scoff at the negativity here when the team itself has no confidence to share with their fans. I don't see how they could expect a different reaction when they are so downbeat before the car has even hit the track.

Yes, it could be that they want to underpromise and overdeliver after last year's disaster start to the season. But even so, the fact that they have to resort to this sort of tactic to keep the fans happy when the season starts is not an attitude I would endorse.

They have been bullish about their investments and team restructure since 2019. Now that we are nearing the deadlines of their own predictions for bringing McLaren to the front, people would be expecting results. The fact that they went backwards last year after consecutive improvements is not a good sign. And not having confidence in your own technical capabilities to develop a car that is good enough to beat the midfield after making predictions of actually fighting for the championship within the next two seasons is also not a good sign.

You don't see Mercedes, RedBull and Ferrari display that lack of confidence, because if you are certain of your abilities, you should not be scared of others pulling an "one-up" on you.

I think some fans are reading out of context and ignoring the other reports of optimism regarding the upgrades.
So we are happy, not entirely happy for what is the launch car, but optimistic that we should take a good step soon."

To be honest, that doesn't sound downbeat to me.

Like I said before, I think while we are happy with the development of the car in most of the areas, there's some areas in which we kind of realised a little late in development, some really strong directions.

This doesn't sound downbeat either, simply cautious and realistic.

[diffuser]

All this negativity and a wheel hasn’t even turned I wouldn’t at all be surprised if McLaren are just being cautious with their words remember Barcelona tests last year an how it went from optimism to heart break come the Bahrain test, I reckon there just playing safe to not build expectations like last year

This is probably the most likely scenario. But you cannot scoff at the negativity here when the team itself has no confidence to share with their fans. I don't see how they could expect a different reaction when they are so downbeat before the car has even hit the track.

Yes, it could be that they want to underpromise and overdeliver after last year's disaster start to the season. But even so, the fact that they have to resort to this sort of tactic to keep the fans happy when the season starts is not an attitude I would endorse.

They have been bullish about their investments and team restructure since 2019. Now that we are nearing the deadlines of their own predictions for bringing McLaren to the front, people would be expecting results. The fact that they went backwards last year after consecutive improvements is not a good sign. And not having confidence in your own technical capabilities to develop a car that is good enough to beat the midfield after making predictions of actually fighting for the championship within the next two seasons is also not a good sign.

You don't see Mercedes, RedBull and Ferrari display that lack of confidence, because if you are certain of your abilities, you should not be scared of others pulling an "one-up" on you.

I think some fans are reading out of context and ignoring the other reports of optimism regarding the upgrades.
So we are happy, not entirely happy for what is the launch car, but optimistic that we should take a good step soon."

To be honest, that doesn't sound downbeat to me.

Like I said before, I think while we are happy with the development of the car in most of the areas, there's some areas in which we kind of realised a little late in development, some really strong directions.

This doesn't sound downbeat either, simply cautious and realistic.

Like I always say, you don't know what you don't know!

Last year Alpine barely got the car built for the first test. After that the upgrades just kept coming. By the first race the car had changed alot. It kept changing throughout the year and the car just kept improving. So, one never knows.

[Macklaren]

Ultimately, most fans on here want to team to consistently challenge for podiums this year and hopefully, wins next year. If we have a slow start but snag a few mid season podiums that would be wonderful. Better than starting fast and falling away. Unless Alpine have found something magical, it's going to be a close fight for P4 all year

[Slahinki]

All this negativity and a wheel hasn’t even turned I wouldn’t at all be surprised if McLaren are just being cautious with their words remember Barcelona tests last year an how it went from optimism to heart break come the Bahrain test, I reckon there just playing safe to not build expectations like last year

Agreed, the negativity on here is pretty bizarre. So much doom and gloom and the car hasn't even seen a track yet, lmao. Only thing that's reasonable to be upset with so far is the livery, which is 2017 levels of bad. What were they thinking...

[Xero]

I hope I am wrong, but its all a little troubling.

The general mood in the team at the launch was that they aren't where they want to be and hope an upgrade in Baku will address their issues. Baku is in 2.5 months.

James Key as far as I can tell was no where at the launch.

8 of 10 teams have run a shakedown with McLaren and Haas the only ones not to. Yes, a shakedown will not uncover every issue with the car, but it will certainly help you work out any little niggles with the new car.

Something doesn't seem right, but i really hope i am wrong.

Either way I will be cheering for the team this year and hoping for the best.

Andreas never said the upgrade is to address any issue.

As for what the MCL60 can deliver, he added: “In terms of performance expectations, we remain realistic for the short-term. We will see where we are in Bahrain at the test and at the first race. Independently of that, we have good developments in the pipeline, so we remain optimistic for the season ahead.”

The above is from F1.com. From other quotes, it just appears that the team discovered a good development path, but too late in the day to incorporate it in the launch spec, so it'll come with the first upgrade of the season. So the not "entirely happy" remark seems to be about tangible performance left on the table that could have made it to Bahrain. This could be a legacy of the ibrake issues that affected the pace of development of the 2023 car, as Seidl said last year that development started a bit late.
These are Stella's comments during the launch.

Pushed on where he anticipated McLaren to be at the start of the year, Stella suggested that it was impossible to know what rivals had produced.

However, he said that it would be wrong to be too optimistic if the team already knew it was giving performance away.

"It is always difficult to translate what you see over the winter in terms of development to where you're going to be in terms of pecking order," he said. "But we try to relate this to ourselves.

"Like I said before, I think while we are happy with the development of the car in most of the areas, there's some areas in which we kind of realised a little late in development, some really strong directions. So not necessarily we have been able to capitalise on this direction in the very short term.

Summed it up perfectly.

Shows you the danger of how one misinterpretation from a casual observer can spread across social media. I've never understood the narrative myself. All I took from Stella's quotes were that they discovered something too late in development to get ready for the start of the season (understandably with some regret in his voice), and he's keen to get those to the car ASAP. Instead of a negative spin, I'm taking this as a positive. It has to be something very tangible to help close to the front runners.

[Ben1980]

The team have said they are happy, and it's being construed as the team are downbeat and worries?

That's a bit mad, isn't it?

[SmallSoldier]

Craig Scarborough (Scarbs) reckons the MCL60 is a fundamental shift and an attempt to copy last season’s Red Bull. He foresees problems getting the car sufficiently developed as other copied designs Racing Point?) have in the past, which gels with some of the comments from Andreas. So, do we go into 2023 with a fundamentally different concept which the team will have to learn to develop?

On the low key statements coming from the team I would not be concerned at all, even if the car ain’t great out of the box. Bragging can be a burden to bear, low key is fine by me. Obviously if the team performed at Bahrain like last year I’d be disappointed but the team bounced back pretty quickly. The longer term issues were the fundamental flaws of the car, so from that perspective it’s probably a good thing to be making fundamental design concept changes.

I watched the video with Craig, I believe he is been a bit rough on his analysis (I believe there was even mention that McLaren also copied RB’s suspension, when that is definitely not the case)… After every car has debuted, there is clearly 3 potential “concepts” that seem to work well… You can have an undercut, you can have a tub (or a mix of both) or you can have “tiny pods”… Because RB, Ferrari and Mercedes were as expected the top 3 last season, any attempt to go for any of the philosophies, will automatically label you a copy of (insert here depending on your concept)… We’ve gotten to the point that even teams that arguably are doing their own thing (undercut + tub / ramps) are said to be copying both Ferrari and RB.

Watch Kyle’s video (Kyle Engineers), he is pretty good at explaining what is going on with the car… He considers it an evolution of the MCL36.

[SmallSoldier]

All this negativity and a wheel hasn’t even turned I wouldn’t at all be surprised if McLaren are just being cautious with their words remember Barcelona tests last year an how it went from optimism to heart break come the Bahrain test, I reckon there just playing safe to not build expectations like last year

This is probably the most likely scenario. But you cannot scoff at the negativity here when the team itself has no confidence to share with their fans. I don't see how they could expect a different reaction when they are so downbeat before the car has even hit the track.

Yes, it could be that they want to underpromise and overdeliver after last year's disaster start to the season. But even so, the fact that they have to resort to this sort of tactic to keep the fans happy when the season starts is not an attitude I would endorse.

They have been bullish about their investments and team restructure since 2019. Now that we are nearing the deadlines of their own predictions for bringing McLaren to the front, people would be expecting results. The fact that they went backwards last year after consecutive improvements is not a good sign. And not having confidence in your own technical capabilities to develop a car that is good enough to beat the midfield after making predictions of actually fighting for the championship within the next two seasons is also not a good sign.

You don't see Mercedes, RedBull and Ferrari display that lack of confidence, because if you are certain of your abilities, you should not be scared of others pulling an "one-up" on you.

You clearly haven’t watched the Mercedes launch and listened to Toto then… No assurances of fighting at the front

On the other hand, the team has stated their target of P4… Isn’t that leading the midfield?

[JordanMugen]

Now that we are nearing the deadlines of their own predictions for bringing McLaren to the front, people would be expecting results. The fact that they went backwards last year after consecutive improvements is not a good sign.

There were new rules and they made the wrong decisions on the initial aerodynamic concept, and now have gradually adopted an Alpine-style car (for some reason in multiple steps, instead of going there directly like Aston Martin did or starting with "a more correct"^ down washing concept like Alpine did in the first place). Only time will tell if James Key at McLaren can do better than Pat Fry at Alpine or Dan Fallows at Aston Martin, and thus whether McLaren made the right decision to select Key in preference to Fry or Fallows.

I suppose McLaren could also consider whether to review Peter Prodromou's position as Head of Aerodynamics too? I wonder whether Key or Prodromou is more responsible for McLaren's choice of a strange aerodynamic concept for their 2022 launch car (be it with the 2021-type sidepods or that very unusual tea tray configuration they persisted with)?

Ironically perhaps McLaren can consider to bring in ousted Ferrari technical guru Mattia Binotto?

Clearly the Ferrari way would be to reshuffle after such a poor car as the 2022 McLaren, but the McLaren way may be to prefer stability...? Regardless despite "going backwards", McLaren themselves seemed relatively happy with their 2022 season overall ("it's a long process", "awaiting new wind tunnel and simulator" etc), unlike the sentiment at a team like Ferrari.

^ Obviously there is no such as thing as correct. For whatever reason, McLaren have found that changing towards the predominant concept on the grid brought more performance than developing their own concept further. Maybe the rumours that McLaren set their initial 2022 downforce target far too low and then achieved it and mistakenly thought that would be sufficient or best-in-field are true, who knows?!

This could be a legacy of the ibrake issues that affected the pace of development of the 2023 car, as Seidl said last year that development started a bit late.

What caused McLaren to miss the mark with their 2022 launch car? Was it a simple lack of a proper target for the required downforce level? Deficiencies in component design, modelling and simulation, causing the brake miscalculation and other issues like the lack of front grip and (supposed) inconsistent centre-of-pressure?

McLaren fans were obviously expecting McLaren to use the new regulations to make a jump to the front of the field as their 2021 rivals Ferrari did, and were sorely disappointed when McLaren did not do so!!

Is the simplest explanation that McLaren are a midpack team and can be expected to produce a car at a midpack level and they did so, so the details of brake overheating, car balance and what not along the way are not important?

[CjC]

As Seidl said last year, McLaren are a couple of years off. He’s now left, which says everything you need to know. If there was something exciting to stick around for, he’d still be there. Zak stated the team would not see the benefit of the new wind tunnel until 2025 either.

Unfortunately, I can’t see McLaren making any real progress this year. The top 3 are miles ahead.

Also don’t forget, Seidl is the CEO now at Sauber/ Audi effectively doing the job Zak does for Mclaren. I wouldn’t see it as Seidl jumping ship but more like getting a pay rise

[AR3-GP]

As Seidl said last year, McLaren are a couple of years off. He’s now left, which says everything you need to know. If there was something exciting to stick around for, he’d still be there. Zak stated the team would not see the benefit of the new wind tunnel until 2025 either.

Unfortunately, I can’t see McLaren making any real progress this year. The top 3 are miles ahead.

Zak (or was it Stella?) said recently that new windtunnel will be online mid-2024 and be used exclusively for the 2025 car.

[SmallSoldier]

As Seidl said last year, McLaren are a couple of years off. He’s now left, which says everything you need to know. If there was something exciting to stick around for, he’d still be there. Zak stated the team would not see the benefit of the new wind tunnel until 2025 either.

Unfortunately, I can’t see McLaren making any real progress this year. The top 3 are miles ahead.

Zak (or was it Stella?) said recently that new windtunnel will be online mid-2024 and be used exclusively for the 2025 car.

During the launch, Zak mentioned that the Wind Tunnel will be ready by mid “2023”, but it won’t be used for the 2023 car (MCL60) but for the development of the 2024 car since by mid season they will already be working on next year’s car.