2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

[mwillems]

Actually one could argue that some of these concepts are pretty old:

Downwash Sidepods = Check
Undercut = Check
Cannon Exit = Check
Cannon Exit Aimed between Rear Wing and Beam Wing = Check
(It even uses a similar ramp on the Exit Cannon that Mercedes showed in the W14)

Why was the MP4-29 so uncompetitive despite sharing the power unit of the leading Mercedes and Williams cars?

Actually for that matter, why was the MP4-28 so uncompetitive too?

Was simply the lack of Mercedes money starting to take effect (and indeed money flowing from McLaren to Mercedes, rather than the other way), or was it more complex than that?

The RB ideas were already considered by Mclaren and I'm sure other teams during the previous years car design in mid-late '21.

Yet instead McLaren choose a design with less potential for some reason and then changed afterwards. Rather odd!

Of course that assumes that McLaren would have been able to produce a winning car in 2022, and that the midfield was not their ceiling due to lacking Mercedes money over a full decade regardless of their choice of vehicle design?

I miss this cars

That's when McLaren had a lot of Mercedes money. Surely the absence of works Mercedes-Benz backing is by far the simplest explanation for why McLaren are less competitive now?

It was because they shut down for longer than others in COVID due to the financial issues, and it turns out the wind tunnel time is phased over the months, so it's not like you get an amount you can use in the year at any point, but an amount per month. Because of this they lost a lot of time in the tunnel and had to petition the FIA to get some back, which they did but not all and it impacted the development of the MCL36.

As it was they were then behind and weren't confident they could fully test the more advanced solutions.

But hindsight is a wonderful thing when you see them working on someone else's car. I'd imagine without the brake issues or Dans issues they would have comfortably been fourth though, so the work they did over that winter wasn't terrible, even if it didn't hit the peaks it could have.

This thread (not you) seems to go from blaming Dan for everything to blaming the car and saying the cars not good enough. Truth is the Car wasn't that bad (but not great) and Dan was not awful but not very good either.

Lando showed what the car could do and he was best of the rest. It shows the teams class that they never turned on Dan outwardly or even inwardly it seems. Or indeed Dans class, he dealt with the situation magnificently, if not the driving.

[ringo]

If Alpine is faster.. Piastri's move will be looking like Dan's but worse. Worse because his career is just starting, and Lando can make the bad experience even worse if Lando starts pummeling him.

[PhillipM]

I don't think he'll care, he'll be in for a few years anyway.

[haza]

Piastri is said to be very good adapting to new machinery so I’m sure it won’t take long to get up to speed, in terms of landos situation he’s been with the team for a while and he’s itching to win 2025 will be more or less his year for deciding in which direction to go I can see many teams being interested in lando he’s a stellar qualifier and a ever improving racer an if we’re not winning in 2025 we may loose a champion level driver to teams like red bull Audi or even merc

[SmallSoldier]

We will also have to be patient with Piastri, since he will probably need time to build speed and confidence (not much different than Lando’s first season with the Team)… His goal has to be bring the car home the first few races and wouldn’t be surprised if they go with an slow build approach with him… Hopefully he won’t be buried by the fans if he indeed his initial races aren’t too remarkable.

[Ground Effect]

Piastri is said to be very good adapting to new machinery so I’m sure it won’t take long to get up to speed, in terms of landos situation he’s been with the team for a while and he’s itching to win 2025 will be more or less his year for deciding in which direction to go I can see many teams being interested in lando he’s a stellar qualifier and a ever improving racer an if we’re not winning in 2025 we may loose a champion level driver to teams like red bull Audi or even merc

Audi?

[mwillems]

I have a feeling that Piastri is going to find the edge very quickly. I actually think he's likely to push too fast than anything.

I'm looking forward to finding out for real.

[mwillems]

Piastri is said to be very good adapting to new machinery so I’m sure it won’t take long to get up to speed, in terms of landos situation he’s been with the team for a while and he’s itching to win 2025 will be more or less his year for deciding in which direction to go I can see many teams being interested in lando he’s a stellar qualifier and a ever improving racer an if we’re not winning in 2025 we may loose a champion level driver to teams like red bull Audi or even merc

Audi?

They "Join" in 26 with an engine but by 24 they will have the team under their control and developing their cars, you may aswell call them Audi from this year now Seidl is there. They already own a stake of Sauber.

[PhillipM]

We've seen massive manufacturers take over plenty of teams. They don't turn up with a race winner. Maybe 5 years down the line...

[AR3-GP]

We've seen massive manufacturers take over plenty of teams. They don't turn up with a race winner. Maybe 5 years down the line...

BMW had podiums in the first and second year, and poles, wins, and a title tilt in the third year.

And BMW was Sauber…

[SmallSoldier]

We've seen massive manufacturers take over plenty of teams. They don't turn up with a race winner. Maybe 5 years down the line...

BMW had podiums in the first and second year, and poles, wins, and a title tilt in the third year.

And BMW was Sauber…

The exception that makes the rule? They could have a great car, but nothing is a given in Motorsports and specially in Formula 1… The big advantage of manufacturers was that they could bring a lot of cash with them to boost a team, that has been “nerfed” with the Budget Cap, in which they can’t simply outspend the competition… Sauber has a great base to build upon is definitely different than in the past buying a lagging backmarker, but been a manufacturer / works team doesn’t guarantee success.

[Mansell89]

Craig Scarborough (Scarbs) reckons the MCL60 is a fundamental shift and an attempt to copy last season’s Red Bull. He foresees problems getting the car sufficiently developed as other copied designs Racing Point?) have in the past, which gels with some of the comments from Andreas. So, do we go into 2023 with a fundamentally different concept which the team will have to learn to develop?

On the low key statements coming from the team I would not be concerned at all, even if the car ain’t great out of the box. Bragging can be a burden to bear, low key is fine by me. Obviously if the team performed at Bahrain like last year I’d be disappointed but the team bounced back pretty quickly. The longer term issues were the fundamental flaws of the car, so from that perspective it’s probably a good thing to be making fundamental design concept changes.

Love Scarbs but he doesn’t know what the design is worth lap time wise, so we need to see it shake out.

I’m interested to see the first upgrade to find out what direction they found too late for launch. Wonder if it is something we’ve already seen on other cars?

QQ for my casual/novice brain…

on the Merc powered cars, there seems to be an engine bulge (also on the Alpine) - like a long cylindrical shape running from air intake to the rear of the car - what is it, and is it less pronounced on the McLaren or is that simply a trick of the light due to the carbon livery?

[JordanMugen]

If Alpine is faster.. Piastri's move will be looking like Dan's but worse.

Not at all. Piastri's choice was McLaren or Williams, not McLaren or Alpine. He is also a free-agent for 2025 unlike Alpine's plan that Piastri would first move to Alpine only in 2025 while being on some ridiculously long contract.

If Piastri does well he can try to move to Red Bull or elsewhere in 2025, unlike "possibly having the chance" of moving to Alpine from Williams in 2025!

[Ground Effect]

Piastri is said to be very good adapting to new machinery so I’m sure it won’t take long to get up to speed, in terms of landos situation he’s been with the team for a while and he’s itching to win 2025 will be more or less his year for deciding in which direction to go I can see many teams being interested in lando he’s a stellar qualifier and a ever improving racer an if we’re not winning in 2025 we may loose a champion level driver to teams like red bull Audi or even merc

Audi?

They "Join" in 26 with an engine but by 24 they will have the team under their control and developing their cars, you may aswell call them Audi from this year now Seidl is there. They already own a stake of Sauber.

I get that, what I’m wondering is why Audi is considered a viable option for Lando. Is it because Seidl is there? There’s absolutely no guarantee they’ll be competitive from the get go. BMW also took over from Sauber, they didn’t set the world alight.

[Ground Effect]

We've seen massive manufacturers take over plenty of teams. They don't turn up with a race winner. Maybe 5 years down the line...

BMW had podiums in the first and second year, and poles, wins, and a title tilt in the third year.

And BMW was Sauber…

Win, not wins. They were fair at best, I’m sure if you asked the management who green lit the operation, they’d tell you it didn’t meet expectations. Also bear in mind, they were an active engine supplier, before jumping in as a full works team, won races and had a title push with Williams.