Mercedes W14

[Blackout]

Cockpit distance looks the same to me. It's has been a Mercedes trait to use the maximum allowed length ofr front wheel to cockpit though... So I supposed they did that in 2022 and 2023..

Their 2022 cockpit was already far forward, much further than Ferrari & obviously RB
With their fuel tank shape, it's not easy to have a backward cockpit...

[AR3-GP]

This is ideal. Its about 15 cm more to the front. It was said that too much rearward weight distribution also in relation to the CoP was the big problem of the W13.

https://postimg.cc/D82CVjyD

The weight distro is pretty much fixed by regulation.

You say it - pretty much. But not fixed. There is still a window of 12 kgs to play with. 12 kg too much at the front or rear can definitely make a difference in race cars, especially in connection with the CoP. I have seen many comparisons and in my opinion they definetely changed the weight distribution by transferring the driver position to the front.

Where are you seeing a 12kg tolerance?

[Andi76]

Cockpit distance looks the same to me. It's has been a Mercedes trait to use the maximum allowed length ofr front wheel to cockpit though... So I supposed they did that in 2022 and 2023..

Their 2022 cockpit was already far forward, much further than Ferrari & obviously RB
With their fuel tank shape, it's not easy to have a backward cockpit...
https://i.imgur.com/Te6CGOb.gif

I don't think this comparison is accurate. Its a well known fact and was widely reported that Mercedes had the most rearward driver position in 2022. I would have to be very wrong about that now.

[Andi76]

The weight distro is pretty much fixed by regulation.

You say it - pretty much. But not fixed. There is still a window of 12 kgs to play with. 12 kg too much at the front or rear can definitely make a difference in race cars, especially in connection with the CoP. I have seen many comparisons and in my opinion they definetely changed the weight distribution by transferring the driver position to the front.

Where are you seeing a 12kg tolerance?

https://i.postimg.cc/J7KdBJzz/image.png

0.445+0.540=0.985 so they have 1,5% to play with. Or 796×0.445=354.23, 796x0.540=429.84 ---> 354.23+429.84=784.06 so almost 12 kg to play with. So contrary to what obviously many believe, there is very much a margin.

[chrisc90]

free image hosting
internal floor stays? Brightness raised on this post

[Blackout]

Cockpit distance looks the same to me. It's has been a Mercedes trait to use the maximum allowed length ofr front wheel to cockpit though... So I supposed they did that in 2022 and 2023..

Their 2022 cockpit was already far forward, much further than Ferrari & obviously RB
With their fuel tank shape, it's not easy to have a backward cockpit...
https://i.imgur.com/Te6CGOb.gif

I don't think this comparison is accurate. It a well known fact that Mercedes had the most rearward driver position in 2022.

The comparison is very accurate for a human being (look at the wheels). The pics were taken by the same photographer in the same place and in a short amount of time. And obviously the camera angle is near perfect and 100 times bette than the pics you re using.
+ with the fuel tank shape Mercedes has, you cannot technically place the cockpit far rearwards like RB or MCL, unless you add 50cm to the car's length or width.
RB & MCL clearly had the most backward cockpit, while Mer and Alpine were one of the most forward

[Stu]

You say it - pretty much. But not fixed. There is still a window of 12 kgs to play with. 12 kg too much at the front or rear can definitely make a difference in race cars, especially in connection with the CoP. I have seen many comparisons and in my opinion they definetely changed the weight distribution by transferring the driver position to the front.

Where are you seeing a 12kg tolerance?

https://i.postimg.cc/J7KdBJzz/image.png

0.445+0.540=0.985 so they have 1,5% to play with. Or 796×0.445=354.23, 796x0.540=429.84 ---> 354.23+429.84=784.06 so almost 12 kg to play with. So contrary to what obviously many believe, there is very much a margin.

The important part of the regulation is the variation is “at any time during the competition”, potentially that is the difference between a full fuel tank and one with the 1litre sample left in it; is the fuel tank at the CoG??

[Andi76]

Their 2022 cockpit was already far forward, much further than Ferrari & obviously RB
With their fuel tank shape, it's not easy to have a backward cockpit...
https://i.imgur.com/Te6CGOb.gif

I don't think this comparison is accurate. It a well known fact that Mercedes had the most rearward driver position in 2022.

The comparison is very accurate. The pics were taken by the same photographer in the same place and in a short amount of time. And obviously the camera angle is near perfect and 100 times bette than the pics you re using.
+ with the fuel tank shape Mercedes has, you cannot technically place the cockpit far rearwards, unless you add 50cm to the car's length or width.

This information is from F1s own website and Marc Hughes :



I checked this to make sure I wasn't mistaken, although I was sure because it was said so many times. The driver's position and sidepods were further back on the Mercedes than on Ferrari and Red Bull. The engine was moved further back especially for this. As I said - was explained 2022 umpteen times by all experts whether Hughes, Piola and how they are called all. And I believe that they know a little more precisely, after all, they are standing next to the cars.

[jumpingfish]

I don't think this comparison is accurate. It a well known fact that Mercedes had the most rearward driver position in 2022.

The comparison is very accurate. The pics were taken by the same photographer in the same place and in a short amount of time. And obviously the camera angle is near perfect and 100 times bette than the pics you re using.
+ with the fuel tank shape Mercedes has, you cannot technically place the cockpit far rearwards, unless you add 50cm to the car's length or width.

This information is from F1s own website and Marc Hughes :

https://postimages.org/

I checked this to make sure I wasn't mistaken, although I was sure because it was said so many times. The driver's position and sidepods were further back on the Mercedes than on Ferrari and Red Bull. The engine was moved further back especially for this. As I said - was explained 2022 umpteen times by all experts whether Hughes, Piola and how they are called all. And I believe that they know a little more precisely, after all, they are standing next to the cars.

I think that W13 render on the image is not what was on track during 2022 season

[Andi76]

Where are you seeing a 12kg tolerance?

https://i.postimg.cc/J7KdBJzz/image.png

0.445+0.540=0.985 so they have 1,5% to play with. Or 796×0.445=354.23, 796x0.540=429.84 ---> 354.23+429.84=784.06 so almost 12 kg to play with. So contrary to what obviously many believe, there is very much a margin.

The important part of the regulation is the variation is “at any time during the competition”, potentially that is the difference between a full fuel tank and one with the 1litre sample left in it; is the fuel tank at the CoG??

It isn't. That's exactly the leeway the teams have in their weight distribution. I know this personally from engineers. That's the leeway that the teams were able to keep in this regard and that the FIA also wanted to give, because they also wanted some leeway.

[Andi76]

The comparison is very accurate. The pics were taken by the same photographer in the same place and in a short amount of time. And obviously the camera angle is near perfect and 100 times bette than the pics you re using.
+ with the fuel tank shape Mercedes has, you cannot technically place the cockpit far rearwards, unless you add 50cm to the car's length or width.

This information is from F1s own website and Marc Hughes :

https://postimages.org/

I checked this to make sure I wasn't mistaken, although I was sure because it was said so many times. The driver's position and sidepods were further back on the Mercedes than on Ferrari and Red Bull. The engine was moved further back especially for this. As I said - was explained 2022 umpteen times by all experts whether Hughes, Piola and how they are called all. And I believe that they know a little more precisely, after all, they are standing next to the cars.

I think that W13 render on the image is not what was on track during 2022 season

We can go around in circles here and keep saying -this photo has lens distortion or this render doesn't...the fact is that pretty much all the people who have seen the cars in person every week have said unanimously throughout the 2022 season that Mercedes had the cockpit set back the furthest. And they moved the engine back for that. That is simply the way it is. If someone does not want to believe that now, whether out of injured vanity because he posted something else here or because he believes other sources than these more - ok. But I am out of it now. Because more than the page of Formula 1 itself or Marc Hughes and people who have seen these cars weekly with their own cars - you can not cite as evidence. Because the actual car itself, unfortunately, I can not put on the table.

[AR3-GP]

You say it - pretty much. But not fixed. There is still a window of 12 kgs to play with. 12 kg too much at the front or rear can definitely make a difference in race cars, especially in connection with the CoP. I have seen many comparisons and in my opinion they definetely changed the weight distribution by transferring the driver position to the front.

Where are you seeing a 12kg tolerance?

https://i.postimg.cc/J7KdBJzz/image.png

0.445+0.540=0.985 so they have 1,5% to play with. Or 796×0.445=354.23, 796x0.540=429.84 ---> 354.23+429.84=784.06 so almost 12 kg to play with. So contrary to what obviously many believe, there is very much a margin.

Thanks for that, I glossed over the fact that this regulation does not add up to 1.

[Blackout]

I don't think this comparison is accurate. It a well known fact that Mercedes had the most rearward driver position in 2022.

The comparison is very accurate. The pics were taken by the same photographer in the same place and in a short amount of time. And obviously the camera angle is near perfect and 100 times bette than the pics you re using.
+ with the fuel tank shape Mercedes has, you cannot technically place the cockpit far rearwards, unless you add 50cm to the car's length or width.

This information is from F1s own website and Marc Hughes :

https://postimages.org/

I checked this to make sure I wasn't mistaken, although I was sure because it was said so many times. The driver's position and sidepods were further back on the Mercedes than on Ferrari and Red Bull. The engine was moved further back especially for this. As I said - was explained 2022 umpteen times by all experts whether Hughes, Piola and how they are called all. And I believe that they know a little more precisely, after all, they are standing next to the cars.

Not only it's Mark Hughes (who has very little credibility), you are also showing me that completely nonsenical comparison using the totally fake and wrong 3d render that Mercedes published in 2022... and this should be more accurate than my comparison?

The accurate photos and Technic speak for themselves and are indeed more credible than Mark Hughes, even if he sleeps with the car.

[AR3-GP]

@Andi76, we definitely cannot overlook the fake renders.

[chrisc90]

https://ibb.co/t2FP8DZ - Viewing full size makes it evident.

Not sure if that shows the stays a bit better? I did view it on my phone and can hardly tell, but on laptop it was clear.