Mercedes W14

[mzso]

https://twitter.com/ScarbsTech/status/1 ... 2x8yw&s=19

https://twitter.com/ScarbsTech/status/1 ... UB_xQ&s=19

The detachable panel surely has a weight penalty. So it's no wonder the car is largely unpainted.

[Henk_v]

Well, as far as I have understood, you only tally the cost of parts raced for the cost cap. The RB lightweight tub was not brought in '22 to avoid taking the cost penalty. If they deemed it necessary to bring the new tub they could have and just eat less lobster for lunch.

So getting a second set of panels for the MB car will obviously cost them windtunnel and CFD time, but the parts themselves can be shelved if not necessary, limiting the impact of of a two-horse strategy somewhat.

I actually hope they succeed with the confusedpods design. The world does not need any more RB clones.

[Cs98]

Well, as far as I have understood, you only tally the cost of parts raced for the cost cap. The RB lightweight tub was not brought in '22 to avoid taking the cost penalty. If they deemed it necessary to bring the new tub they could have and just eat less lobster for lunch.

So getting a second set of panels for the MB car will obviously cost them windtunnel and CFD time, but the parts themselves can be shelved if not necessary, limiting the impact of of a two-horse strategy somewhat.

I actually hope they succeed with the confusedpods design. The world does not need any more RB clones.

Maybe. But I fail to see the utility of testing these sidepods and then bringing something radically different to the first race. The difference is one week so surely it would be much much better to just test with your real solution. Which makes me think this is their real solution for now (provided they use it in the test), and whatever upgrades they have lined up will come later in the season.

[Vanja #66]

I actually hope they succeed with the confusedpods design. The world does not need any more RB clones.

I wouldn't want that either, but I also don't think Merc would use RB solution. They use inwash in cocke bottle zone, neither of RB clones has coke bottle zone any more, only Ferrari and Haas have.

On the other hand, Merc would have a drag penalty if they copy Ferrari sides completely, since their airbox is much larger. So I am sure they will come up with another unique solution of their own, since they are already doing different kind of flow conditioning.

If they do somehow go RB way, I can only realistically see them doing something like AMR, but also in their own way. Their mid wings are doing some unique things and you can't just switch that with a generative design without an appropriate flow conditioning replacement.

[chrstphrln]

Well, as far as I have understood, you only tally the cost of parts raced for the cost cap. The RB lightweight tub was not brought in '22 to avoid taking the cost penalty. If they deemed it necessary to bring the new tub they could have and just eat less lobster for lunch.

So getting a second set of panels for the MB car will obviously cost them windtunnel and CFD time, but the parts themselves can be shelved if not necessary, limiting the impact of of a two-horse strategy somewhat.

I actually hope they succeed with the confusedpods design. The world does not need any more RB clones.

Maybe. But I fail to see the utility of testing these sidepods and then bringing something radically different to the first race. The difference is one week so surely it would be much much better to just test with your real solution. Which makes me think this is their real solution for now (provided they use it in the test), and whatever upgrades they have lined up will come later in the season.

That's exactly what Mercedes has long since confirmed. Testing from start with race ready configuration, sidepods new after first races.
If I remember correctly, the intended date was after the first three races.

[atanatizante]

Sorry guys but it seems that I don`t understand something that for me it`s so obvious ... maybe it`s a misunderstanding from me ...

It`s about the entrance of those 2 cannon cooling channels that are starting from both sides of the driver's helmet ... so from my point of view, there is an upward slope there at the start of the channel which causes load/downforce, right or not? And further, down the road, the airflow is downwards towards the beam wing and the same this is inducing some little load/DF, right or not?

So, I ask you guys with deep aero knowledge please be kind and explain to me why and where these cannon outlet channels structure is producing lift on the car...

[Goblin42]

Please correct me if i'm wrong , the load on the rear wing for the W13 coincides with the CFD runs by Vanja , but for the W14 it seems that the center section will get more load due to the tunnels above the engine cover
is there a possibility to change the rear wing concept to harness the load in the center, or is it just turbulent airflow from the cockpit losses and thank you

[organic]

Honestly wouldn't read that deeply into it given the intake/airbox/cockpit shapes are not true to the cars

[Big Tea]

Well, as far as I have understood, you only tally the cost of parts raced for the cost cap. The RB lightweight tub was not brought in '22 to avoid taking the cost penalty. If they deemed it necessary to bring the new tub they could have and just eat less lobster for lunch.

So getting a second set of panels for the MB car will obviously cost them windtunnel and CFD time, but the parts themselves can be shelved if not necessary, limiting the impact of of a two-horse strategy somewhat.

I actually hope they succeed with the confusedpods design. The world does not need any more RB clones.

Maybe. But I fail to see the utility of testing these sidepods and then bringing something radically different to the first race. The difference is one week so surely it would be much much better to just test with your real solution. Which makes me think this is their real solution for now (provided they use it in the test), and whatever upgrades they have lined up will come later in the season.

It could be that the exact same actual panels are used wit 'things' added or removed from them. No knowing what is behind the panel that could be reviled or connected with slots or a duct

[Spoutnik]

[Venturiation]

W13 onboard for those that want to compare

[Stu]

PLEASE keep to tech discussions about the car, speculation/horror stories about flex, cracks, porpoising, etc really do not belong here. A few fractured video drops from a filming day and random, unsubstantiated reports are too woolly to include within a technical discussion.

[PlatinumZealot]

So why are we talking about them talking about 4th sidepod design revision in just over a year if it's unimportant?

If you miss the basic aero features (wings and floor) no sidepod will save you, exhibits A to whatever - 2022 McLaren, AMR, ATR, Williams... But if two teams pinpoint basic aero features, make a good integration of aero and suspension then the smallest of details will make or break. Exhibit A - 2022 Ferrari.

The fact is Merc is not sure anymore if they will be able to achieve desired flow conditioning even with W14 sides, seeing how they mentioned redesign even before preseason test. There are other interesting solutions out there other than RB and Ferrari and surely more untapped interpretations. I am very interested in whatever Merc does, comebacks are always interesting.

The side pods evolved and that's normal. You say fourth revision but it's really the second proper one. The first testing ones for 2022 were just bluff body place holders and during the season we only saw some changes near the floor but sidepods ultimately the same.
I reckon if it werent for the budget cap we'd have seen this new shape last year too.

The new shape looks to be the natural evolution of the zero pod concept. Unlike last year's testing one we know it's going to be raced.

And the only postulation by Toto is that if it doesn't perform well... They will modify it a little bit. With Toto's words whatever that little bit is, it could be some slight reprofilings... Or something radical. But very likely it will be an even tighter package because They can't change the side pod wings that easily can't they?

[Cs98]

So why are we talking about them talking about 4th sidepod design revision in just over a year if it's unimportant?

If you miss the basic aero features (wings and floor) no sidepod will save you, exhibits A to whatever - 2022 McLaren, AMR, ATR, Williams... But if two teams pinpoint basic aero features, make a good integration of aero and suspension then the smallest of details will make or break. Exhibit A - 2022 Ferrari.

The fact is Merc is not sure anymore if they will be able to achieve desired flow conditioning even with W14 sides, seeing how they mentioned redesign even before preseason test. There are other interesting solutions out there other than RB and Ferrari and surely more untapped interpretations. I am very interested in whatever Merc does, comebacks are always interesting.

The side pods evolved and that's normal. You say fourth revision but it's really the second proper one. The first testing ones for 2022 were just bluff body place holders and during the season we only saw some changes near the floor but sidepods ultimately the same.
I reckon if it werent for the budget cap we'd have seen this new shape last year too.

The new shape looks to be the natural evolution of the zero pod concept. Unlike last year's testing one we know it's going to be raced.

And the only postulation by Toto is that if it doesn't perform well... They will modify it a little bit. With Toto's words whatever that little bit is, it could be some slight reprofilings... Or something radical. But very likely it will be an even tighter package because They can't change the side pod wings that easily can't they?

Actually I think they can. There must be a reason why they made that side panel which sits over the SIS removable.

[AR3-GP]

Aston Martin did change concept mid season, but the point is that they had the update planned in CFD form back in November 2021.

It has already been implied that Mercedes has had something in the works due to a late design change over the winter.