2023 Pre-Season Testing - Bahrain International Circuit, Feb 23 - 25

[dialtone]

those budgets don't include engines. They are team budgets.

The engine budgets would frighten you...

That's fair. I think the engine budget is about the same amount on its own, at least according to this:

https://www.racefans.net/2018/12/26/the ... -part-two/

According to that, excluding engine people, RBR had 680 employees working for the team, Ferrari had 480 and Mercedes 500.

The estimated number of employees working in the team (not the engine side) in 2018 in that link is 680 for Red Bull. 950 for Mercedes and 950 for Ferrari.

I misread the page, I retire my comment .

[AR3-GP]

That's fair. I think the engine budget is about the same amount on its own, at least according to this:

https://www.racefans.net/2018/12/26/the ... -part-two/

According to that, excluding engine people, RBR had 680 employees working for the team, Ferrari had 480 and Mercedes 500.

The estimated number of employees working in the team (not the engine side) in 2018 in that link is 680 for Red Bull. 950 for Mercedes and 950 for Ferrari.

I misread the page, I retire my comment .

No worries, I do get a giggle out of imagining Mercedes operating on 500 staff . Maybe when they were Brawn?

[dialtone]

The estimated number of employees working in the team (not the engine side) in 2018 in that link is 680 for Red Bull. 950 for Mercedes and 950 for Ferrari.

I misread the page, I retire my comment .

No worries, I do get a giggle out of imagining Mercedes operating on 500 staff . Maybe when they were Brawn?

It didn't make much sense to me either how RBR could have more people than Ferrari and Merc while spending less than them... I should have figured it out .

[FW17]

Ferrari heavily sandbagging. I dont think RBR are in the front, if so not by much.

Aston Martin will need to do a lot more to get to the top 3, one winter is not adequate to bridge the gap for the races.

[FW17]

That's fair. I think the engine budget is about the same amount on its own, at least according to this:

https://www.racefans.net/2018/12/26/the ... -part-two/

According to that, excluding engine people, RBR had 680 employees working for the team, Ferrari had 480 and Mercedes 500.

The estimated number of employees working in the team (not the engine side) in 2018 in that link is 680 for Red Bull. 950 for Mercedes and 950 for Ferrari.

I misread the page, I retire my comment .

This saw the total staff employed in design, manufacturing and engineering - the departments most directly affected by the budget cap - fall from 906 in 2020 to 831 in 2021. The overall headcount at Mercedes fell from 1,063 to 1,004.

[f1jcw]

The only people who dislikes the current regulation are the same group of people that loved the horrible 2014 one(ie Hamilton fans). We have closer racing now, pretty and fast cars, and the field is more bunched up.

Closer racing? We had one team run away with most of the wins. We have people not like the regulation changes due to this who are not Mercedes fans. We have restricted development, how is it any different from 2014.

[organic]

The only people who dislikes the current regulation are the same group of people that loved the horrible 2014 one(ie Hamilton fans). We have closer racing now, pretty and fast cars, and the field is more bunched up.

Closer racing? We had one team run away with most of the wins. We have people not like the regulation changes due to this who are not Mercedes fans. We have restricted development, how is it any different from 2014.

Closer racing as in cars able to follow through corners more closely without losing downforce / overheating tyres

[jumpingfish]

Is it possible that Ferrari tested less df wing because during this season will be 6 sprints and 2 of them are in Azerbaijan and Belgium (not high DF requirement), so 1 practice isn't enough there and Ferrari tried to prepare for sprints?

[ChrisF1]

The only people who dislikes the current regulation are the same group of people that loved the horrible 2014 one(ie Hamilton fans). We have closer racing now, pretty and fast cars, and the field is more bunched up.

Closer racing? We had one team run away with most of the wins. We have people not like the regulation changes due to this who are not Mercedes fans. We have restricted development, how is it any different from 2014.

I assume you're a Hamilton/Mercedes fan?

Yes, one team won most of the races, but it was in no way anywhere near what Merc were doing in 2014-2016.

Others only won because of Merc failures. Ferrari and Mercedes won races on pure pace in 2022.

If Charles hadn't been throwing it off the road, and Ferrari been putting their car on the wrong strategy, we would have actually seen a good battle. If Merc hadn't taken 12 races to get on top of their car, we would have seen a good battle.

2023 will be closer than 2014-2016 ever was. 2023 was about people getting cars wrong with a new concept. 2014 was about people getting cars right, and still being a second off because they didn't have a Merc engine.

Edit: Also, 2014 became an engine formula as you ignored me saying before.

Merc had their engine on the Dyno since 2008, and were pushing the rules towards an engine formula they favoured. They totally mugged off the rest of F1 with an engine that had 15% more power than the rest of the grid.

It made Williams second best for god's sake - how can you possibly compare 2022 to the engine formula failure that gifted a very good driver 80 wins, and wrongly propelled him into "great" territory?

[Chuckjr]

Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. So well stated. I’d upvote you if it was possible.

[Seanspeed]

wrongly propelled him into "great" territory?

The idea that Lewis doesn't belong in the 'great' category is just one of the worst takes, and really makes me wonder what you've really got against him so much that you'd resort to such a ridiculous claim.

And if you accuse me of being a Lewis fan, well, I'll have to try quite hard not to laugh in your face.

[basti313]

The only people who dislikes the current regulation are the same group of people that loved the horrible 2014 one(ie Hamilton fans). We have closer racing now, pretty and fast cars, and the field is more bunched up.

Closer racing? We had one team run away with most of the wins. We have people not like the regulation changes due to this who are not Mercedes fans. We have restricted development, how is it any different from 2014.

I assume you're a Hamilton/Mercedes fan?

Yes, one team won most of the races, but it was in no way anywhere near what Merc were doing in 2014-2016.

Others only won because of Merc failures. Ferrari and Mercedes won races on pure pace in 2022.

If Charles hadn't been throwing it off the road, and Ferrari been putting their car on the wrong strategy, we would have actually seen a good battle. If Merc hadn't taken 12 races to get on top of their car, we would have seen a good battle.

2023 will be closer than 2014-2016 ever was. 2023 was about people getting cars wrong with a new concept. 2014 was about people getting cars right, and still being a second off because they didn't have a Merc engine.

Edit: Also, 2014 became an engine formula as you ignored me saying before.

Merc had their engine on the Dyno since 2008, and were pushing the rules towards an engine formula they favoured. They totally mugged off the rest of F1 with an engine that had 15% more power than the rest of the grid.

It made Williams second best for god's sake - how can you possibly compare 2022 to the engine formula failure--------------------------

How can you end such a good post so badly? I have deleted to help you with a good post

Seriously:
You are right on the season comparison. We had an excellent season that was super close at the beginning and not the rules, but the incompetence of two teams robbed us from an excellent end like in 2021.
You missed two points in this good post: The rule change mid season for the floor and the token system in 2014 cementing the mismatch.

In this regard I am looking forward to this season. With the new floor rule that should allow everyone to get even closer to RB and open development it simply comes down to incompetence if we do not see a nice battle between RB, Ferrari and Merc.

[Mosin123]

The only people who dislikes the current regulation are the same group of people that loved the horrible 2014 one(ie Hamilton fans). We have closer racing now, pretty and fast cars, and the field is more bunched up.

Closer racing? We had one team run away with most of the wins. We have people not like the regulation changes due to this who are not Mercedes fans. We have restricted development, how is it any different from 2014.

I assume you're a Hamilton/Mercedes fan?

Yes, one team won most of the races, but it was in no way anywhere near what Merc were doing in 2014-2016.

Others only won because of Merc failures. Ferrari and Mercedes won races on pure pace in 2022.

If Charles hadn't been throwing it off the road, and Ferrari been putting their car on the wrong strategy, we would have actually seen a good battle. If Merc hadn't taken 12 races to get on top of their car, we would have seen a good battle.

2023 will be closer than 2014-2016 ever was. 2023 was about people getting cars wrong with a new concept. 2014 was about people getting cars right, and still being a second off because they didn't have a Merc engine.

Edit: Also, 2014 became an engine formula as you ignored me saying before.

Merc had their engine on the Dyno since 2008, and were pushing the rules towards an engine formula they favoured. They totally mugged off the rest of F1 with an engine that had 15% more power than the rest of the grid.

It made Williams second best for god's sake - how can you possibly compare 2022 to the engine formula failure that gifted a very good driver 80 wins, and wrongly propelled him into "great" territory?

I dont remember Williams finishing the season 2nd in 2014 - till now. 2014 - 2016 seen more action between 1st n 2nd than we did last year. even if it was just between the Mercs, least it was a compitition. LH had a far harder time beating Rosberg than Max had beating any one last year. Max didnt even break sweat. compare how Max gets out the car in 2021 to last year, most of the races last year he looked as if he hadnt even started racing yet. Redbull dominated

[Sieper]

Closer racing? We had one team run away with most of the wins. We have people not like the regulation changes due to this who are not Mercedes fans. We have restricted development, how is it any different from 2014.

I assume you're a Hamilton/Mercedes fan?

Yes, one team won most of the races, but it was in no way anywhere near what Merc were doing in 2014-2016.

Others only won because of Merc failures. Ferrari and Mercedes won races on pure pace in 2022.

If Charles hadn't been throwing it off the road, and Ferrari been putting their car on the wrong strategy, we would have actually seen a good battle. If Merc hadn't taken 12 races to get on top of their car, we would have seen a good battle.

2023 will be closer than 2014-2016 ever was. 2023 was about people getting cars wrong with a new concept. 2014 was about people getting cars right, and still being a second off because they didn't have a Merc engine.

Edit: Also, 2014 became an engine formula as you ignored me saying before.

Merc had their engine on the Dyno since 2008, and were pushing the rules towards an engine formula they favoured. They totally mugged off the rest of F1 with an engine that had 15% more power than the rest of the grid.

It made Williams second best for god's sake - how can you possibly compare 2022 to the engine formula failure that gifted a very good driver 80 wins, and wrongly propelled him into "great" territory?

I dont remember Williams finishing the season 2nd in 2014 - till now. 2014 - 2016 seen more action between 1st n 2nd than we did last year. even if it was just between the Mercs, least it was a compitition. LH had a far harder time beating Rosberg than Max had beating any one last year. Max didnt even break sweat. compare how Max gets out the car in 2021 to last year, most of the races last year he looked as if he hadnt even started racing yet. Redbull dominated

This is so poor. The fact that only the two Mercedes drivers could compete was NOT a sign of dominance you say, while Max fighting with Charles (not Checo) at least until the halfway mark IS a sign of dominance is twisting reality. Plus, it is super off topic.

[f1jcw]

but the incompetence of two teams robbed us from an excellent end like in 2021.

So.. 2014 era was all too bad Mercedes too dominant.
2022, was bad cause the other teams were incompetent and not the fault of the mighty redbull.

How come the other teams in 2014 were not classed as incompetent.
Please lets not have double standards.