2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

[chrisc90]

On quali pace of their bestest laps they are bang on in the same position. 4 thousands to the gap to the leader difference to the previous year.

[ringo]

I understand why they want their own concept. Copying redbull would still have left them in second place. Cannot blame them for the Zero-pods. To be the best, you just need an inherent advantage with a concept, be that engine or aero or suspension.
Merc need to go back to the drawing board and come up with something that no one else has.
AMR are pretty much all in on RBR and Ferrari concepts and seem good but not great. Maybe faster drivers than Alonso and Stroll would make them look better, but who knows.

[De Jokke]

Toto said they need to ditch the concept now (I posted link in w14 thread) but I don't get it: it was plain obvious and only now they just come to this conclusion.

On the other hand, they expected to be 0.6 down and are 0.4 down (tyre corrected if that info is correct), so it's not that bad as they expected.

It's like:
after testing: we're going to be behind but we have an update coming. We expect 6 tenths deficit.
After quali: We are behind (0.4 tyre corrected): so better than expected but now: dump this thing, let's move to other concept

It doesn't make sense

[mendis]

Who manages the department of finding other team's secrets (exploiting grey areas) at Mercedes? Can they find something again on AM and Ferrari to pull them back? They have been doing it better than building the car. Red Bull is depending on Mercedes to overcome their penalty of wind tunnel time loss.

[chrisc90]

Ive no idea where this 0.2 difference in tyre offset is coming from. The car is 0.676 behind the Red Bull. No rubbish about a driver not hooking up a corner, older tyres and al that rubbish. Today the car is 0.676 slower than Max's red bull. If they look at it that way they will want to take into account track evolution, wind direction/speed, track temperature, amount of rubber down, time of the day. All rubbish. Too many hypotheticals.

Red bull could turn round and said, we are 0.2 down because the wind changed direction, or max brakes 30cm earlier than another corner, or the track temp rose marginally.

[organic]

Ive no idea where this 0.2 difference in tyre offset is coming from.

I think it comes from Merc not doing their laptimes at like for like time (so track evolution, track temp all cause laptimes improvement) as RB, but I could be wrong.

[mendis]

Ive no idea where this 0.2 difference in tyre offset is coming from. The car is 0.676 behind the Red Bull. No rubbish about a driver not hooking up a corner, older tyres and al that rubbish. Today the car is 0.676 slower than Max's red bull. If they look at it that way they will want to take into account track evolution, wind direction/speed, track temperature, amount of rubber down, time of the day. All rubbish. Too many hypotheticals.

Red bull could turn round and said, we are 0.2 down because the wind changed direction, or max brakes 30cm earlier than another corner, or the track temp rose marginally.

If it helps in some sort of consolation, that's fine. Every team can claim something of that sort like RB saying Max was still struggling with lack of balance as needed, which was there in testing or Alonso not having it clean in Q3. But it's a moot point. What you end up is what is reality.

[ambientnoiz]

Doesn't look like they're solving s*. I bet you the upgrade that comes in a few races will do absolutely nothing, and they'll be like oh, the correlation didn't blah blah... the usual junk. Heads need to start rolling

[Sevach]

Ive no idea where this 0.2 difference in tyre offset is coming from. The car is 0.676 behind the Red Bull. No rubbish about a driver not hooking up a corner, older tyres and al that rubbish. Today the car is 0.676 slower than Max's red bull. If they look at it that way they will want to take into account track evolution, wind direction/speed, track temperature, amount of rubber down, time of the day. All rubbish. Too many hypotheticals.

Red bull could turn round and said, we are 0.2 down because the wind changed direction, or max brakes 30cm earlier than another corner, or the track temp rose marginally.

I agree, only 3 cars ran after Hamilton/Russell completed their laps, the track didn't rubber in any significant way.
The RB and Ferrari drivers knew they had a banker, Mercedes knew they had to do it now.

If you want to be this "anal" about anything, between Max first to run in Q3 and Russel/Hamilton more cars ran the track than that, still .45 slower.

[mendis]

Doesn't look like they're solving s*. I bet you the upgrade that comes in a few races will do absolutely nothing, and they'll be like oh, the correlation didn't blah blah... the usual junk. Heads need to start rolling

Spot on. I have the same exact feeling. They are stuck. Someone here was betting his house that the 2023 changes would help Mercedes and harm others. Doesn't look like Mercedes consulted him either. If that was genuinely the case, they have let go an opportunity to score over their competition.

[f1jcw]

Ive no idea where this 0.2 difference in tyre offset is coming from. The car is 0.676 behind the Red Bull. No rubbish about a driver not hooking up a corner, older tyres and al that rubbish. Today the car is 0.676 slower than Max's red bull. If they look at it that way they will want to take into account track evolution, wind direction/speed, track temperature, amount of rubber down, time of the day. All rubbish. Too many hypotheticals.

Red bull could turn round and said, we are 0.2 down because the wind changed direction, or max brakes 30cm earlier than another corner, or the track temp rose marginally.

I agree, only 3 cars ran after Hamilton/Russell completed their laps, the track didn't rubber in any significant way.
The RB and Ferrari drivers knew they had a banker, Mercedes knew they had to do it now.

If you want to be this "anal" about anything, between Max first to run in Q3 and Russel/Hamilton more cars ran the track than that, still .45 slower.

You have to question why (yet again) they pulled such a stupid strategy.
What did the seek to gain?

Atleast Charles had a good excuse, saving tyre for tomorrow.

[harty71]

Ive no idea where this 0.2 difference in tyre offset is coming from. The car is 0.676 behind the Red Bull. No rubbish about a driver not hooking up a corner, older tyres and al that rubbish. Today the car is 0.676 slower than Max's red bull. If they look at it that way they will want to take into account track evolution, wind direction/speed, track temperature, amount of rubber down, time of the day. All rubbish. Too many hypotheticals.

Red bull could turn round and said, we are 0.2 down because the wind changed direction, or max brakes 30cm earlier than another corner, or the track temp rose marginally.

I agree, only 3 cars ran after Hamilton/Russell completed their laps, the track didn't rubber in any significant way.
The RB and Ferrari drivers knew they had a banker, Mercedes knew they had to do it now.

If you want to be this "anal" about anything, between Max first to run in Q3 and Russel/Hamilton more cars ran the track than that, still .45 slower.

You have to question why (yet again) they pulled such a stupid strategy.
What did the seek to gain?

Atleast Charles had a good excuse, saving tyre for tomorrow.

Russell was not safe, he almost was knocked out in Q2.

[wogx]

Poor Russell, he is clearly the number two in the team

[f1jcw]

I agree, only 3 cars ran after Hamilton/Russell completed their laps, the track didn't rubber in any significant way.
The RB and Ferrari drivers knew they had a banker, Mercedes knew they had to do it now.

If you want to be this "anal" about anything, between Max first to run in Q3 and Russel/Hamilton more cars ran the track than that, still .45 slower.

You have to question why (yet again) they pulled such a stupid strategy.
What did the seek to gain?

Atleast Charles had a good excuse, saving tyre for tomorrow.

Russell was not safe, he almost was knocked out in Q2.

This is Q3, ran late, ran one and had no time to run again.

Did they think the track would be faster

Yet again, with Merc, DONT OVER THINK IT!

[harty71]

You have to question why (yet again) they pulled such a stupid strategy.
What did the seek to gain?

Atleast Charles had a good excuse, saving tyre for tomorrow.

Russell was not safe, he almost was knocked out in Q2.

This is Q3, ran late, ran one and had no time to run again.

Did they think the track would be faster

Yet again, with Merc, DONT OVER THINK IT!

There was no point in running twice because they only had the new tyres for one run.