2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

[f1jcw]

SCs/fortune favoured Russell early on not just Miami

You can add Australia which allowed Russell to finish 3rd rather than 5th..

Im not here to criticize Russell but this narrative is boring and it was exactly the same for the example I gave (Ocon, Sainz etc.).

I find the entire last couple of pages a bit boring.
I don't go into other teams threads but do they also experience a pile on when other "fans" smell some blood?

I'm a bit surprised by Toto's words as I thought the results were better then expected and with better strategy could hav being 4/10ths behind on a track that doesn't suit them and not even had a race yet. Seems a bit presumptious and even if they thought it internally, why broadcast it.

[McG]

I don't think you took much notice last season. Russell was very much on Hamilton's pace in qualifying and in the races.

H2H was 13-9 Hamilton in Quali.

It was even in the races when you account for 2-car finishes I think, and that’s despite RUS benefitting from VSC shenanigans in several occasions.

How else can we twist this in Lewis' favour?

I don't think WE need to. It's clear that Russell has to do better and gain more experience. He wasn't quite championship material last year. If all things were equal and it was a championship fight, who would you put your money on winning a championship from starting behind their rival 4 times in a season. And that rival being arguably the best of all time in his prime, in his 9th season with the team, against a newcomer.

Common sense, statistics and facts are all against you.

[Spoutnik]

SCs/fortune favoured Russell early on not just Miami

You can add Australia which allowed Russell to finish 3rd rather than 5th..

Im not here to criticize Russell but this narrative is boring and it was exactly the same for the example I gave (Ocon, Sainz etc.).

I find the entire last couple of pages a bit boring.
I don't go into other teams threads but do they also experience a pile on when other "fans" smell some blood?

I'm a bit surprised by Toto's words as I thought the results were better then expected and with better strategy could hav being 4/10ths behind on a track that doesn't suit them and not even had a race yet. Seems a bit presumptious and even if they thought it internally, why broadcast it.

Yes on the Ferrari topic there was some fight about the "usefulness" of Sainz last year

[De Jokke]

He is a bigger failure than the car.

Pure gold.

Always easy to kick a man when he's down. He's the most succesful teamboss by quite some margin of the most succesful f1 team (percentage wise). That people dare to post such nonsense after what merc and wolff showed us for the past 8 years [bar'22] (16 titles if FIA hadn't intervened). And now he should go? Right

[CHT]

if you look at this, both drivers seem confident they can catch RBR along the way:

We have heard this too many times before last year and it is sounding like they are reading off some press kit prepared by their publicist to make their drivers sound like they are some motivational guru paid to keep their engineers happy and motivated.

To gain performance and downforce, I reckon the cars will have to run closer to the ground and this will again create the porpoising problem, something Merc struggle with a lot last year. So they will end up where they left off last year.

RBR and other teams are well into their 2nd years of understanding their current design concept. With FIA limiting testing and budget cap, it will be an uphill task for Merc or any team to completely change their design concept to late in the game. If Merc is to go down this path, we can expect them to fall back even future before they can catch up with their rival.

So to me, 2023 is likely to be a write-off year for Merc, and their struggle should continue into 2024 if they introduce a new design concept. By 2025, when most top teams shift their resources to focus on 2026 cars, Merc and Lewis may then get their chance for the championship.

In my view, Lewis will have to wait out another 2 years before Merc can give him a championship-winning car, and that's provided Russell doesn't get the upper hand.

[mendis]

H2H was 13-9 Hamilton in Quali.

It was even in the races when you account for 2-car finishes I think, and that’s despite RUS benefitting from VSC shenanigans in several occasions.

How else can we twist this in Lewis' favour?

I don't think WE need to. It's clear that Russell has to do better and gain more experience. He wasn't quite championship material last year. If all things were equal and it was a championship fight, who would you put your money on winning a championship from starting behind their rival 4 times in a season. And that rival being arguably the best of all time in his prime, in his 9th season with the team, against a newcomer.

Common sense, statistics and facts are all against you.

Russell beat Hamilton in 2022.

[CHT]

He is a bigger failure than the car.

Pure gold.

Always easy to kick a man when he's down. He's the most succesful teamboss by quite some margin of the most succesful f1 team (percentage wise). That people dare to post such nonsense after what merc and wolff showed us for the past 8 years [bar'22] (16 titles if FIA hadn't intervened). And now he should go? Right

A lot of Merc success could be credited to past FIA engine regulations and Merc's superior engine performance. (Merc has been dominating F1 since the engine regulation switch from V8 to V6.)

When a team boss has got cars with significant power advantage over rivals, it will make their work a lot easier. I think the real challenge for Toto is to show that he can hold the team together while the team is no longer winning.

[mendis]

Pure gold.

Always easy to kick a man when he's down. He's the most succesful teamboss by quite some margin of the most succesful f1 team (percentage wise). That people dare to post such nonsense after what merc and wolff showed us for the past 8 years [bar'22] (16 titles if FIA hadn't intervened). And now he should go? Right

A lot of Merc success could be credited to past FIA engine regulation and Merc's superior engine performance. When a team boss has got cars with significant power advantage over rivals, it will make their work a lot easier.

Simple fact is, Ross Brawn built the team and got it to the door of success. Toto pushed him out and enjoyed the ride.

[McG]

How else can we twist this in Lewis' favour?

I don't think WE need to. It's clear that Russell has to do better and gain more experience. He wasn't quite championship material last year. If all things were equal and it was a championship fight, who would you put your money on winning a championship from starting behind their rival 4 times in a season. And that rival being arguably the best of all time in his prime, in his 9th season with the team, against a newcomer.

Common sense, statistics and facts are all against you.

Russell beat Hamilton in 2022.

You think you're smart by posting loaded one liners but unfortunately for you F1 doesn't work like that. By posting that you are saying you do not understand F1 in any depth. I can only surmise that you are a troll with an agenda.

[mendis]

I don't think WE need to. It's clear that Russell has to do better and gain more experience. He wasn't quite championship material last year. If all things were equal and it was a championship fight, who would you put your money on winning a championship from starting behind their rival 4 times in a season. And that rival being arguably the best of all time in his prime, in his 9th season with the team, against a newcomer.

Common sense, statistics and facts are all against you.

Russell beat Hamilton in 2022.

You think you're smart by posting loaded one liners but unfortunately for you F1 doesn't work like that. By posting that you are saying you do not understand F1 in any depth. I can only surmise that you are a troll with an agenda.

No need to get personal. Peace.

[chrisc90]

They should shift focus onto a 2024 car early I reckon if the season doesn't show anything massively competitive. Merc were 3rd last year, so naturally getting a increase in wind tunnel time for this season anyhow, so should give them a bit of a hand, if they can get a grip on the concept of the aero regs. With AM showing positive signs, so far, then they could well drop down to 4th in the constructors IF stroll can keep bagging good points if he is capable with the injuries at present.

RBR and Ferrari have strong cars, no denying that, I think it will be mega hard pushed for Merc to realistically challenge them for a decent spot in the WCC. Take the hit and focus on making a car for the 2024 season. I'm not sure who will be 5th best team and will have a better idea after a few races and before the break so everyone should have a decent pointer of where teams are in terms of performance.

Ultimately, I think it could well be talent in the factory that is taking its burden. You dont get a team like AMR who dont even have their own wind tunnel making significant gains like that over the winter break without some good people in there.

What could happen though....is Merc see a bit of what's going on in the AMR runs in the wind tunnel and get ideas.

[AR3-GP]

I wonder if Merc will finally play some games with the windtunnel sliding scale system. What they need is a lot more windtunnel time and CFD hours than Ferrari and Red Bull. They could in theory ballast the cars up and run an "off the pace" development program so they don't score too many WCC points. If they could finish P7 in the WCC by the halfway point of the season, they would have 30-40% more windtunnel time than RB and Ferrari for a full year.

Merc have many decisions to make. Will they be stuck in the grind of being not quite good enough but scoring too many points to actually gain the windtunnel time they need to reinvent their car, or will they take a year of sacrifice, in order to guarantee a considerable regulations advantage in the form of extra windtunnel and CFD hours for the 2024 car? It's an interesting gamble, but if you are going to say you are sacrificing, then you have to really swallow your pride and go all in. The drivers can't complain about not being able to race for points.

[johnny comelately]

Put the data thinking in the drawer boys!

[mendis]

I wonder if Merc will finally play some games with the windtunnel sliding scale system. What they need is a lot more windtunnel time and CFD hours than Ferrari and Red Bull. They could in theory ballast the cars up and run an "off the pace" development program so they don't score too many WCC points. If they could finish P7 in the WCC by the halfway point of the season, they would have 30-40% more windtunnel time than RB and Ferrari for a full year.

Merc have many decisions to make. Will they be stuck in the grind of being not quite good enough but scoring too many points to actually gain the windtunnel time they need to reinvent their car, or will they take a year of sacrifice, in order to guarantee a considerable regulations advantage in the form of extra windtunnel and CFD hours for the 2024 car? It's an interesting gamble, but if you are going to say you are sacrificing, then you have to really swallow your pride and go all in. The drivers can't complain about not being able to race for points.

It would be genius if they can pull off massive Windtunnel time like you mentioned! They can basically use this year's FPs and Races as testing ground. Lewis can take a sabbatical if doesn't want to do the donkey work and Mick can happily jump in to help. Lewis can come back next winter testing.

[zakhassan44]

I wonder if Merc will finally play some games with the windtunnel sliding scale system. What they need is a lot more windtunnel time and CFD hours than Ferrari and Red Bull. They could in theory ballast the cars up and run an "off the pace" development program so they don't score too many WCC points. If they could finish P7 in the WCC by the halfway point of the season, they would have 30-40% more windtunnel time than RB and Ferrari for a full year.

Merc have many decisions to make. Will they be stuck in the grind of being not quite good enough but scoring too many points to actually gain the windtunnel time they need to reinvent their car, or will they take a year of sacrifice, in order to guarantee a considerable regulations advantage in the form of extra windtunnel and CFD hours for the 2024 car? It's an interesting gamble, but if you are going to say you are sacrificing, then you have to really swallow your pride and go all in. The drivers can't complain about not being able to race for points.

that would be too much off an embarrassment for all the Mercedes F1 higher-ups that they'd never even consider something like this