2023 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, March 03 - 05

[mendis]

Fresh tires are 5s better in the first stint than used. They would be 5s slower if they had no new tires. Not sure what RBR situation matters at all in this. Ferrari strategy makes sense, was agreed upon before quali, both drivers agreed to it. LEC said in the interview that he agrees with it and it's a good idea.

I heard this first. These Pirellis need to be brought in gently for first few laps when they are new to have a sustained performance. If they push like crazy at the start, they lose it instantly.

[zeph]

Pleasantly surprised Alonso is a bit closer to the top teams! Six tenths off pole, lol (if you know, you know!).

So based on today's results it looks like Ferrari is ~0.3s behind RBR, with Mercedes and Aston Martin ~0.3s behind Ferrari.

It'll be interesting to see how this translates to race pace. Can't wait for tomorrow!

[organic]

Question to those who possess the knowledge: Is a fresh tyre worse at lights out? Is a slightly used tyre better at getaway?

Completely fresh tyre is always best on the launch. Sometimes a scrubbed set of soft tyres can be more resilient to being pushed hard at the beginning of the stint, ie a scrubbed/heat treated tyre will be more consistent in performance than a fresh set pushed to the same extent during a stint. There's no pace advantage to using a scrubbed set in almost all cases but it does change the performance characteristics.

[Bisonas]

Fresh tires are 5s better in the first stint than used. They would be 5s slower if they had no new tires. Not sure what RBR situation matters at all in this. Ferrari strategy makes sense, was agreed upon before quali, both drivers agreed to it. LEC said in the interview that he agrees with it and it's a good idea.

Fresh tires are better if you don't destroy them behind someone else or to put it differently if you use them wisely.
LEC must be cool headed tomorrow because if he uses that new softs start battling the overall faster Red Bulls compromising his tires he may be vulnerable to Alonso and maybe Mercs L8r in the race.

I can see 3 possible reasonings behind this decision.
I can understand all of them i just don't know which reasoning will prevail tomorrow.

1st Reasoning, says, We start 3rd on new softs, we attack red bulls in the opening laps, and if we get in front of them, our top speed will keep them behind us while dictating the rhythm and doing our tire management.
That's the reasoning of a team that knows they have the strength to win this betting on fresher rubber and top speed to attack in the first laps.

2nd Reasoning says, we start 3rd on new softs, we don't attack the Red Bulls, we try to follow them from distance, doing our tire management aiming to extend the stint, maybe the second stint also, trying to attack red bulls on the final stint with fresher tires.
That's the reasoning of a team that knows they have the strength to win this, knowing they can sustain a fast rhythm while also maintaining good tire deg levels in order to extend the stints.

3nd Reasoning says, ok we know our tire deg is not very good, red bulls will be faster and that we may need to protect ourselves against Alonso l8r in the race and maybe Mercs also. So we start 3rd with new Softs, we don't attack or scrap it with the Red Bulls, we follow them from distance, doing our tire management aiming solely for that 3rd place.

So what do you guys think LEC will do tomorrow ?
I know Ferrari Fans will hope for 1st and 2nd Reasoning, but tbh my pick for the reasoning behind it, is the 3rd option.
That's just my opinion and the wise thing to do IMO. If LEC battles the Red Bulls he may in did compromise his tires and his first stint, leaving him vulnerable to Alonso and possibly to mercs l8r in the race.

[Redragon]

Fresh tires are 5s better in the first stint than used. They would be 5s slower if they had no new tires. Not sure what RBR situation matters at all in this. Ferrari strategy makes sense, was agreed upon before quali, both drivers agreed to it. LEC said in the interview that he agrees with it and it's a good idea.

Fresh tires are better if you don't destroy them behind someone else or to put it differently if you use them wisely.
LEC must be cool headed tomorrow because if he uses that new softs start battling the overall faster Red Bulls compromising his tires he may be vulnerable to Alonso and maybe Mercs L8r in the race.

I can see 3 possible reasonings behind this decision.
I can understand all of them i just don't know which reasoning will prevail tomorrow.

1st Reasoning, says, We start 3rd on new softs, we attack red bulls in the opening laps, and if we get in front of them, our top speed will keep them behind us while dictating the rhythm and doing our tire management.
That's the reasoning of a team that knows they have the strength to win this betting on fresher rubber and top speed to attack in the first laps.

2nd Reasoning says, we start 3rd on new softs, we don't attack the Red Bulls, we try to follow them from distance, doing our tire management aiming to extend the stint, maybe the second stint also, trying to attack red bulls on the final stint with fresher tires.
That's the reasoning of a team that knows they have the strength to win this, knowing they can sustain a fast rhythm while also maintaining good tire deg levels in order to extend the stints.

3nd Reasoning says, ok we know our tire deg is not very good, red bulls will be faster and that we may need to protect ourselves against Alonso l8r in the race and maybe Mercs also. So we start 3rd with new Softs, we don't attack or scrap it with the Red Bulls, we follow them from distance, doing our tire management aiming solely for that 3rd place.

So what do you guys think LEC will do tomorrow ?
I know Ferrari Fans will hope for 1st and 2nd Reasoning, but tbh my pick for the reasoning behind it, is the 3rd option.
That's just my opinion and the wise thing to do IMO. If LEC battles the Red Bulls he may in did compromise his tires and his first stint, leaving him vulnerable to Alonso and possibly to mercs l8r in the race.

If you degradation is low or normal. I would say the 1st one is the most logical, attack the first stint, try to overcome the Redbull, second stint with the hardest or medium and last stint use the soft again. That would mean 2 stops. But maybe Redbull risk 1 stop in that case if the tyre wear is decent.

The 3rd option would be only if they know they are really bad at tyre degradation because what's the point to have two new of soft tyres sets if you are going to management at least one of them for a long stint. Would make more sense to use the medium and try to do 1 stop and if that 1 stop is to greedy you can always use the second new soft set available on late stages of the race.

Also Alo would probably respond of what Lecrec is doing during the race. If he doesn't have one of his great starts, probably will manage his first stint as long as possible and try 1 stopper if he feels Lecrec is doing 1 stopper too. Or short his second stint with the mediums or harder compound by pushing on that stint if it is a 2 stops and try to undercut to nurse with softs on the last stint

Perez might play with the 1 stop option, Redbull can play with the strategy having the 2 cars at front.

Sainz and the Mercedes are a bit of a misstery as Ferrari and Mercedes long runs didn't look too good, so Sainz not having the option of a extra soft could derail his chances (specially if the strategy team at Ferrari still being so inept)

[Bisonas]

Fresh tires are 5s better in the first stint than used. They would be 5s slower if they had no new tires. Not sure what RBR situation matters at all in this. Ferrari strategy makes sense, was agreed upon before quali, both drivers agreed to it. LEC said in the interview that he agrees with it and it's a good idea.

Fresh tires are better if you don't destroy them behind someone else or to put it differently if you use them wisely.
LEC must be cool headed tomorrow because if he uses that new softs start battling the overall faster Red Bulls compromising his tires he may be vulnerable to Alonso and maybe Mercs L8r in the race.

I can see 3 possible reasonings behind this decision.
I can understand all of them i just don't know which reasoning will prevail tomorrow.

1st Reasoning, says, We start 3rd on new softs, we attack red bulls in the opening laps, and if we get in front of them, our top speed will keep them behind us while dictating the rhythm and doing our tire management.
That's the reasoning of a team that knows they have the strength to win this betting on fresher rubber and top speed to attack in the first laps.

2nd Reasoning says, we start 3rd on new softs, we don't attack the Red Bulls, we try to follow them from distance, doing our tire management aiming to extend the stint, maybe the second stint also, trying to attack red bulls on the final stint with fresher tires.
That's the reasoning of a team that knows they have the strength to win this, knowing they can sustain a fast rhythm while also maintaining good tire deg levels in order to extend the stints.

3nd Reasoning says, ok we know our tire deg is not very good, red bulls will be faster and that we may need to protect ourselves against Alonso l8r in the race and maybe Mercs also. So we start 3rd with new Softs, we don't attack or scrap it with the Red Bulls, we follow them from distance, doing our tire management aiming solely for that 3rd place.

So what do you guys think LEC will do tomorrow ?
I know Ferrari Fans will hope for 1st and 2nd Reasoning, but tbh my pick for the reasoning behind it, is the 3rd option.
That's just my opinion and the wise thing to do IMO. If LEC battles the Red Bulls he may in did compromise his tires and his first stint, leaving him vulnerable to Alonso and possibly to mercs l8r in the race.

If you degradation is low or normal. I would say the 1st one is the most logical, attack the first stint, try to overcome the Redbull, second stint with the hardest and last stint use the soft again. That would mean 2 stops. But maybe Redbull risk 1 stop in that case if the tyre wear is decent.

The 3rd option would be only if they know they are really bad at tyre degradation because what's the point to have two new of soft tyres sets if you are going to management at least one of them for a long stint. Would make more sense to use the medium and try to do 1 stop and if that 1 stop is to greedy you can always use the second new soft set available on late stages of the race.

Also Alo would probably respond of what Lecrec is doing during the race. If he doesn't have one of his great starts, probably will manage his first stint as long as possible and try 1 stopper if he feels Lecrec is doing 1 stopper too. Or short his second stint with the mediums or harder compound by pushing on that stint if it is a 2 stops and try to undercut to nurse with softs on the last stint

That's the unknown.
Do they know they have bad degradation and want to play it safe for third?
Or they want to actually attack the red bulls ?

Vasseur already told
"We know that in the past we have suffered from degradation and for this reason we have decided to be more cautious with a new set, but the season won’t end tomorrow night and we must keep the same approach, keeping concentration and trying to do better.”

Alonso may extend 1st and second 2nd stint, do some tire management and attack the Ferraris on his last stint with Fresher rubber. If he doesn't do a magic start, he may realize that he doesn't have the top speed to pass the Ferraris early in the race, and he may opt to protect the tires and extend the stint.

[dialtone]

Fresh tires are 5s better in the first stint than used. They would be 5s slower if they had no new tires. Not sure what RBR situation matters at all in this. Ferrari strategy makes sense, was agreed upon before quali, both drivers agreed to it. LEC said in the interview that he agrees with it and it's a good idea.

I heard this first. These Pirellis need to be brought in gently for first few laps when they are new to have a sustained performance. If they push like crazy at the start, they lose it instantly.

That’s what Sainz said and I’m positive he knows more about how these work for Ferrari

[Spoutnik]

Could a 3 stopper be faster ?
Like : S-M-M-S (used) for Leclerc

For Alonso and the - apparently - low tyre deg AM I remember Vettel won in 2018 with a one stopper, his tyre were dead but he kept Bottas behind him on the last lap.

[AR3-GP]

Could a 3 stopper be faster ?
Like : S-M-M-S (used) for Leclerc

For Alonso and the - apparently - low tyre deg AM I remember Vettel won in 2018 with a one stopper, his tyre were dead but he kept Bottas behind him on the last lap.

Hamilton did the 1 stopper trick in 2021 iirc? I think it's generally a losing strategy imo as really bar the silly track limits issue, Verstappen should have won that race.

[zoroastar]

Everything he said was correct.

Alonso not being able to make the right choice at the right time/or get along well with team on the long term is different of saying "he has no emotional intelligence"... Weigh your words

Sorry, no, Nico was kind, Alonso is toxic,
He got his 1st and 2nd world championships with Renault, he went to McLaren and left, Renault took him back, he then burnt his bridges with Ferrari and was able to go back to McLaren, but yet again, bismirched them, even then Renault took him back, and what did he do, left with bad feeling.
Good drive, but horrible person to employ.

I actually supported Alonso in 2005 and 2006, but Renault keeps offering him drives and their is no appreciation from him at all.

its shocking that any athlete would leave one team and go to another in order to win more. completely shocking

[johnny comelately]

[Artur Craft]

Well done Yuki, .750s faster than well-hyped Nyck
Awesome job from Hulk-boy today

Latifi turned everybody into a genious : Russell, Albon and even Devries. All of them are above average, at best. Even Sargeant, who was never special on lower formulae, is already very close to Albon while Latifi was pathetic. Zhou is another one just like Logan, showing that Bottas is nothing special either, just someone who got into rocketship cars

[Artur Craft]

Fresh tire is better all the time unless you run the special brand of Michelin tires from 2005-2006 designed to specifically increase the size of the contact patch after the first few laps, totally against the rules but Ferrari was too strong.

That was on 2003, on 2005-2006 they just had a better compound than Bridgestone, specially on 2005 when the difference was huge.

BTW, it´s not a given that fresh tyres will always perform better than slightly used ones because there is further vulcanization after a heat cycle and tyres can become more durable after it. If that´s that case of these 2023 Pirellis, idk

[Sevach]

Fresh tire is better all the time unless you run the special brand of Michelin tires from 2005-2006 designed to specifically increase the size of the contact patch after the first few laps, totally against the rules but Ferrari was too strong.

That was on 2003, on 2005-2006 they just had a better compound than Bridgestone, specially on 2005 when the difference was huge.

BTW, it´s not a given that fresh tyres will always perform better than slightly used ones because there is further vulcanization after a heat cycle and tyres can become more durable after it. If that´s that case of these 2023 Pirellis, idk

Ferrari will potentially have better grip off the line and better first lap grip, don't see many advantages beyond that, it won't have significant "life" advantages, as you say it can even be worst than a tire that was heated and drove a small distance once.
Questionable wether that is better than getting pole or even keeping the front row grid slot.

[Chuckjr]

The budget cap is working wonders. Good to see the field equalizing. I’ll have a hard time sleeping tonight I’m so excited about the race.

AMR is for real and like I said a while ago, is faster than Merc. AMR also understands their car better than Merc, so should make for larger gains over the season. I don’t buy the idea Merc will outdevelop AMR. Not at all.

What in god’s name has happened to Macca?? Good grief. Wthf. When do we start calling them Williams 2.0? They should be better than this. Hoping their major update brings big gains, but I’m not holding my breath.