2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

[McG]

My take and maybe a TL/DR: McLaren isn’t the draggy car everyone makes it to be, if it has a deficit against it’s rivals is relatively small and not the reason for the lack of performance in Bahrain

Would this be down to aero efficiency? In that the AM can produce higher downforce with lower drag but the MCL60 cannot.

(we have to be careful with an Stroll comparison, first weekend in the car and broken wrists (how fair could it be?), but it can still give us clues:

Well McLaren have another slow Aussie so it's quite a fair comparison. He must have been getting advice from old Daniel. For context Norris qualified 8th in his first appearance for McLaren. But both drivers beaten by a limp wristed Stroll. Maybe in the race Stroll will struggle.

[djos]

Would this be down to aero efficiency? In that the AM can produce higher downforce with lower drag but the MCL60 cannot.

(we have to be careful with an Stroll comparison, first weekend in the car and broken wrists (how fair could it be?), but it can still give us clues:

Well McLaren have another slow Aussie so it's quite a fair comparison. He must have been getting advice from old Daniel. For context Norris qualified 8th in his first appearance for McLaren. But both drivers beaten by a limp wristed Stroll. Maybe in the race Stroll will struggle.

The car is once again a dog! It’s barely as fast as the Williams and much slower than the Haas!

To add insult to injury, Aston Martin have made big strides forward, while McLaren have gone backwards.

[McG]

(we have to be careful with an Stroll comparison, first weekend in the car and broken wrists (how fair could it be?), but it can still give us clues:

Well McLaren have another slow Aussie so it's quite a fair comparison. He must have been getting advice from old Daniel. For context Norris qualified 8th in his first appearance for McLaren. But both drivers beaten by a limp wristed Stroll. Maybe in the race Stroll will struggle.

The car is once again a dog! It’s barely as fast as the Williams and much slower than the Haas!

To add insult to injury, Aston Martin have made big strides forward, while McLaren have gone backwards.

Uh oh it's another Aussie. Triggered

[djos]

Not triggered, just frustrated!

[xReVo]

In your opinion, what are the chances of seeing McLaren ahead of Alpine?

[SmallSoldier]

In your opinion, what are the chances of seeing McLaren ahead of Alpine?

Tomorrow or across the season?

I believe the car may have enough pace for Lando to fight Ocon tomorrow… Over the season is still too early to determine, Bahrain is not a very representative track to draw conclusions in regards to the pecking order (not counting updates during the first couple of months by all the teams), we should know more after a few more races… But with the midfield so bunched up, this season will be won by development rate of the teams

[diffuser]

The car is once again a dog! It’s barely as fast as the Williams and much slower than the Haas!

To add insult to injury, Aston Martin have made big strides forward, while McLaren have gone backwards.

Uh oh it's another Aussie. Triggered

Are you going to make excuses for Piastri all season like you did for years with Ricciardo? It must be exhausting being wrong all the time. Maybe the Red Bull thread is more your place so you can big up Ricciardo the GOAT reserve driver or whatever he is.

Little early to be passing judgement on Piastri. Gonna take 1.5 to 2 years.

Kind of ironic, considering the shiit show he created last year to avoid going to Williams.

[AR3-GP]

Uh oh it's another Aussie. Triggered

Are you going to make excuses for Piastri all season like you did for years with Ricciardo? It must be exhausting being wrong all the time. Maybe the Red Bull thread is more your place so you can big up Ricciardo the GOAT reserve driver or whatever he is.

Little early to be passing judgement on Piastri. Gonna take 1.5 to 2 years.

Kind of ironic, considering the shiit show he created last year to avoid going to Williams.

fwiw, I think Piastri could have been quicker than the Williams and you certainly expect Mclaren to beat Williams this year....If Williams beat Mclaren then there are bigger problems than who Piastri could or should have been driving for....

[geogate]

Guys you are overhyping Baku upgrade. You will be disappointed if you expect a big jump.

I'd love one but usually it does not happen.

P11 on a tough weekend is not bad.

Ordinarily i would completely agree, but i think this case isnt "usual". It is pretty clear they did change direction mid winter - i dont think i remember that from Mclaren before.
I think we can afford some expectation of better performance, but im really not sure they will be able to catch up with AM by seasons end

[Mostlyeels]

From what I could read from the data, the AM creates more downforce for the same amount of drag as the MCL60… So yes, the AMR23 is more aero efficient than the MCL60… But even then, I don’t think that the gap in Downforce is that big between them. It could be seeing in the comparison with Stroll (we have to be careful with an Stroll comparison, first weekend in the car and broken wrists (how fair could it be?), but it can still give us clues:

Lando loses 0.25 between T2 and T4 to Stroll… Keeps losing some time from T4 until T5, but actually gains 3 tenths against him from T5 all the way to T13… We can once again see the deficit in T14, which makes him lose 0.29 in that sector alone… In the DF sections of the track, the MCL60 was actually faster:

Thanks for the great analysis (this and the others). Can't wait to see the McLaren (or other cars) chasing the AM to see how it looks. Also, the deficit of traction of the McLaren out of corners is interesting; changes to the rear suspension? Good to see they're on top of the braking and some types of corners though.

[mclaren111]

There is some WMD-grade trolling in this thread. It's actually quite impressive

The truth hurts. Take off your rose colored glasses. I've been a McLaren fan since I was a kid. But this is no longer the team I know. They've become a parody.

Well, at least Zak seems proud of his digital billboard. Now that's something.

The car isn't bad as it looks, it's just the first weekend of the calendar and the midfield is packed up very close, i never doubted and was not surprised by the performance as i knew they were around a second slower than a top team, and i know they will catch up the other midfield teams as their plan is to bring upgrades throughout the year just like last year and they will find good amount of performance as time goes on slowly, also they were quite clear with expectations and they are focused with Baku Upgrade as the current package they wont bring much updates to it as it's no point to improve it much, if Baku upgrade doesn't work then that's an different topic to be angry about, but once you are a McLaren fan you will always be an McLaren fan, we have all been through Ups and Downs over the years as i have been a fan since Senna-Prost days, keep faith in them.

I'm also since 1988 when Senna joined... Lots of ups & downs... Remember Peugot days ?

Our patience will be rewarded in the next couple of years...

[SmallSoldier]

From what I could read from the data, the AM creates more downforce for the same amount of drag as the MCL60… So yes, the AMR23 is more aero efficient than the MCL60… But even then, I don’t think that the gap in Downforce is that big between them. It could be seeing in the comparison with Stroll (we have to be careful with an Stroll comparison, first weekend in the car and broken wrists (how fair could it be?), but it can still give us clues:

Lando loses 0.25 between T2 and T4 to Stroll… Keeps losing some time from T4 until T5, but actually gains 3 tenths against him from T5 all the way to T13… We can once again see the deficit in T14, which makes him lose 0.29 in that sector alone… In the DF sections of the track, the MCL60 was actually faster:

Thanks for the great analysis (this and the others). Can't wait to see the McLaren (or other cars) chasing the AM to see how it looks. Also, the deficit of traction of the McLaren out of corners is interesting; changes to the rear suspension? Good to see they're on top of the braking and some types of corners though.

Lando consistently brakes later than others, which shows that the capability is in the car to do so… But it could also be part of his driving style sine Max for example brakes way earlier than Lando into most corners, but carries more speed and has a better exit out of them.

Anecdotally, in their fastest lap in Q1… Piastri actually brakes even later than Lando… This bodes well for races with heavy braking zones and should help both build confidence in the MCL60

[michl420]

The car seems to have a little problem on braking under steering input and a bigger by traction under steering input. Also Norris carried the driving style from last year(s) over, maybe a little more smooth could help. (Based on the telemetry we have seen here).
To mention the good things also. Good high speed grip, VERY good braking performance.
My 2 cent.

[Balalu]

Serious question: who is responsible for the team's current situation (whatever it is)? Andreas Seidl or Andrea Stella?

Or is it even the actual "change" timeline that might have created this situation, with no one really to blame?

Seing a lot of McLaren fans stupidly asking for Binotto for TP across the internet.

I would personally pin this more on Seidl (or just his situation amid changing teams) than Stella. Stella deserves time.

I know they don't build the cars, but ultimately the buck stops with them. They have the last say in the team.

[Emag]

Serious question: who is responsible for the team's current situation (whatever it is)? Andreas Seidl or Andrea Stella?

Or is it even the actual "change" timeline that might have created this situation, with no one really to blame?

Seing a lot of McLaren fans stupidly asking for Binotto for TP across the internet.

I would personally pin this more on Seidl (or just his situation amid changing teams) than Stella. Stella deserves time.

I know they don't build the cars, but ultimately the buck stops with them. They have the last say in the team.

As much as the incentive is to blame the bigger names on managerial positions, at the end of the day, the manager can't do sh*t if the people under him are not good enough at their jobs.

When looking at Aston Martin and Haas, both of which have made important hires in the form of Dan Fallows and Simone Resta, you can see by the results on track that yes, budget and infrastructure matters, and McLaren is right to prioritize those things. But it is much more important to have the right people working on the performance aspects of the car.

I am of the opinion that McLaren lacks talent in their engineering and aerodynamics department, because in spite of their infrastructure deficits, I cannot attribute the gap and the problems they have had in the last two years in particular just to those infrastructure deficits.

And I don't mean to disrespect anyone working at McLaren, but truth be told, the car running on track right now it's a product of their work. And at the moment, it is being outclassed by the majority of the field.